Has anyone done a Distributorless Ignition Conversion on a B-series Engine?

[Sulsa]

I'd like to convert the stock ignition on my 94 Integra to a distributorless system. I found 2 universal conversion kits, one by Electromotive ($625 including crank trigger), and one by Holley($1,300 at Summit). I'm not interested in investing that much.


It seems to me that I could buy a couple 2-tower coilpacks made for other cars and use an aftermarket DIS ignition like MSD's DIS2, or Crane's DIS HI6 with some mods.

I was thinking I could use a magnetic camtrigger on the post that the rotor in the distributor usually sits on. The thing is, I don't think either MSD's, or Crane's ignitions are made to work with crank or cam position sensors.

Anyone know of a standalone DIS ignition that will fire from a magnetic or optical trigger? Preferably one with a rev limiter and retard controls, but not a necessity.

Anyone know of anyone that's done such a conversion before? Will it mess with your ECU or Tach on an OBD1 car?

Thanks for ANY help or info you can offer on this.

[Sulsa]

Bump, would really like to hear from anyone who has any info on this.

[Marc-OS]

Honestly, I don't think anyone has done it, mainly because it's more work than it's worth. Although I would give madd props to anyone that does it.

[Sulsa]

I hear that one of the problems with putting high performance ignitions on Hondas is you get arc-over in the distributor cap. Distributor caps also limit the juice your spark plugs get, because it has to jump from the rotor to the post in the Dist. cap first. I'd definitely give it a go if I could dig up the necessary info.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by Sulsa

I hear that one of the problems with putting high performance ignitions on Hondas is you get arc-over in the distributor cap. Distributor caps also limit the juice your spark plugs get, because it has to jump from the rotor to the post in the Dist. cap first. I'd definitely give it a go if I could dig up the necessary info.

Damn man, I really wish I could help you and provide some sort of vital info, but to be honest, this is way out of my relm in terms of help. I hope you get the info to do it and give it a go. Let us know if you do it and how you went about it. If you can figure out a cheaper way than that $1300 holly thing you mentioned, you might have something you could market and sell there.

[crxlvr]

there is no distributor cap in a distributorless iginition system, since hondas are known to be weak, maybe thats why he wants a DIS system.

sorry bro, ive never heard of or seen anyone tackle that kinda swap.

[Hybrid1990crx]

If it was/is possible, what advantages would it have? Power gains? Just curious.

[ORIGINALBANZAI]

http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewto...914&highlight=

You must register first.

[Sulsa]

Originally Posted by ORIGINALBANZAI

http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewto...914&highlight=

You must register first.

Banzai, I think you're just the man I've been looking for.
That's a great thread, lots of info to be gleaned there.


Is there a way to do this without an EMS? I'm trying to find the cheapest way to do this possible.

[spooleffect]

Originally Posted by Sulsa

I hear that one of the problems with putting high performance ignitions on Hondas is you get arc-over in the distributor cap. Distributor caps also limit the juice your spark plugs get, because it has to jump from the rotor to the post in the Dist. cap first. I'd definitely give it a go if I could dig up the necessary info.

Stock Honda coils can produce well over 40,000 volts which is more than enough for a Honda running anything less than nitromethane and or 35psi. The only reason a cap will arc is because of (really)bad timing, damage, debris, or a bad lead and or plug. The cap doesnt have a "juice limit" because secondary ignition is only around 10-40kv with 1-4mA. An 18gauge wire can carry a spark.

[Sulsa]

From what I understand, there are a lot of advantages of direct ignition versus a distributor. FIrst of all, no replacing cap and rotors. Second, the spark only has to jump one gap, the plugs, as opposed to also jumping the rotor to stud in the Dist cap.

With a more powerful igntion and coil, you can widen the gap on your plugs exposing more spark the to the combustable mixture, allowing for a more complete burn. With the extra voltage and current pushing thru, it's hard on all the components, and the old cap and rotor system is just a weak link I'd like to get rid of.

[spooleffect]

I agree COP is better however the reasons you listed were not enough to show that the cap and rotor are unreliable. As I said before secondary ignition voltage and current are not nearly enough to wear out a cap and rotor. I still have the OE cap and rotor on my Cherokee which just hit 168,000miles.

If you add a more powerful coil with the stock gap, you get a longer burn time(duration of spark) from the plug. If you widen this gap you increase resistance and therefore get a shorter burn time which means a less efficient combustion.

If you still want COP, I believe Split Fire has a COP conversion for Hondas. However this is Split Fire we are talking about.;

[Sulsa]

Hehe, you must be looking for a debate.

I'll bite. I never said cap and rotor's were unreliable. I just think the benefits of a DI system are enough to warrant some investigation into installing one.

Just adding "a more powerful coil with the stock gap", isn't necessarily going increase your burn efficiency, or give you any power gain. I believe spark duration is determined by you ignition unit, coil, wires, and spark plugs together, as a system. Each component affects the duration, and intensity of the spark.

Some interesting reading spark efficiency:

http://www.se-r.net/engine/specialty_spark_plugs.html

[spooleffect]

Im am

I can't really explain burn time or firing kv without showing you an ignition scope pattern but I'll try.

When a plug fires there are two main measurements on a scope. Firing Kv which is the Voltage needed to jump the plug gap and burn time which is the spark duration. These two measurements are in direct proportion to one-another. If you increase resistance by for example making the plug gap larger your Firing Kv will go up as more engery is used to jump the gap and therefore less engery is availible to maintain the spark. The more energy availible to keep the spark maintained will result in a more complete combustion and it is also less stressfull for your coil.

As for the "more powerful coil" I was using that as just a reference to the increased gap since most people don't realize that stock systems are plenty powerful enough.

Thanks for being cool about debating, I agree that COP is better but I still like Dizzy Systems and will defend.

[Sulsa]

I do understand the fuctions of arc over voltage (what you call Firing Kv) and spark duration. However, lets say you have a very short gap, this requires very little arc over voltage, and will burn for a long duration. You won't have much spark exposed to the mixture, and you will likely have more unburned fuel. If you increase the spark gap, and have a powerful igniton system that can sustain a high voltage spark, you can have expose more mixture to the spark and still maintain a reasonable spark duration. This will give you a more complete burn, and you should see some power gains.

I'm a little confused at what your point is. Are you saying that my stock acura ignition is good enuf, and I won't see power gains, with a larger plug gap and a performance ingition and coil?