Chrétien

[YogsVR4]

http://canada.com/national/story.asp...C-DF29A33E9728

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien failed yesterday to join the international outrage over Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad's public pronunciation that Jews "rule this world by proxy" and that Muslims should rise against them for a "final victory."

Mr. Chrétien shook Mr. Mahathir's hand and said nothing about the controversy when the two men met yesterday at the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation summit of 21 world leaders.

"He was there. I shook hands with him like with everybody else," said Mr. Chrétien.

The prime minister repeatedly sidestepped offering an opinion on Mr. Mahathir's remarks when he met later with Canadian reporters.
Mr. Chrétien said an interview given by Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham on the weekend would have sufficed as Canada's stand on the subject. Mr. Graham said Mr. Mahathir's comments were "totally unacceptable" and "extremely serious," characterizing the remarks as a "conspiracy theory."

Mr. Chrétien's low-key approach contrasts sharply with that of other world leaders, who have condemned Mr. Mahathir.

U.S. President George W. Bush pulled Mr. Mahathir aside at yesterday's APEC gathering of 21 world leaders and told him his comments were "wrong and divisive."

"It stands squarely against what I believe in," White House spokesman Scott McClellan quoted Mr. Bush as telling the 77-year-old Malaysian leader.

The leaders of Australia, Germany, Italy and Spain have also condemned Mr. Mahathir's speech to a summit of the Organization of Islamic Conference that he hosted last week.

Mr. Mahathir, a controversial figure who is stepping down from 22 years in politics later this month, said the world's 1.3 billion Muslims should unite against "a few million Jews."

"The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them," he said. "We cannot fight them through brawn alone, we must use our brains also."

Mr. Mahathir called on Muslims to use political and economic pressure, but not violence, to achieve "a final victory" over Jews.
He said Jews invented socialism, communism and human rights and democracy to gain control of powerful countries.

Mr. Mahathir leads a country with a large non-Muslim population, and is an outspoken critic of Israel, and has accused the U.S. of having an excessive pro-Israel foreign policy.

Mr. Chrétien said he did not speak with Mr. Mahathir when he met him yesterday for the first time since his remarks last week.
Asked afterwards what he thought of Mr. Mahathir's comments, the prime minister said: "The minister of foreign affairs expressed the views of the government on that."

When asked what he personally thought, Mr. Chrétien said: "It's the view of the government he expressed."

Foreign Affairs spokeswoman Kimberly Phillips said Canadian officials called Dennis Ignatius, Malaysian high commissioner to Ottawa, on the carpet yesterday to "register our condemnation" of Mr. Mahathir's comments.

"We emphasized that religious tolerance is a cherished Canadian value," Ms. Phillips said.

She said Mel MacDonald, Canada's high commissioner to Malaysia, also had registered Canada's displeasure to officials in Kuala Lumpur.
Ms. Phillips said the Canadian government does not believe recalling Canada's high commissioner from Malaysia, or expelling the Malaysian diplomat would be an effective response at this time.

Mr. Mahathir continued to generate controversy yesterday when he accused rich countries of exploiting poor ones through free trade.
"Fair trade can be free, but free trade can be unfair," he said in a speech to business leaders attending the summit. "We are ready to be exploited, but we must be fairly exploited."

Asked what he thought of Mr. Mahathir's latest remarks yesterday, Mr. Chrétien said: "There is always some difficulties in trade. We have some with the United States ... You remember the problem we had with potatoes. They were claiming that there was a problem with the potatoes in Canada. It was only after I had the president to eat five times potatoes from P.E.I. that they decided to accept the Canadian potatoes from P.E.I. So was it fair? Talk to any farmers in P.E.I. at that time who would say it was not fair."

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Glad he was able to stand up for his convictions

[Cbass]

The full transcript for what the PM of Malaysia said...


http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/...79_comment.php

This really has been blown out of context, he was referring to Israel and Zionism in particular, not all jews working in a conspiracy to run teh world

[YogsVR4]

Right. He clearly was praising the Jews for overcoming adversity


I’ve read the entire transcript. What he said should be condemned.

Read his follow up comment

Mahathir responded to the international outcry by telling the Bangkok Post, "They pick up one sentence in which I said 'the Jews control the world'. Well, the reaction of the world shows that they control the world."

Yeah - he didn't mean anything by it

[Cbass]

Well of course he meant something by it. This is an easy thing to believe when you live in an islamic country, seeing the most powerful country in the world, the US, unilaterally support an apartheid state, Israel, in their invasion and subsequent illegal 30 year occupation of several islamic nations, based on the premise of preemption. In case you haven't noticed, the rest of the world doesn't believe in wars of preemption.

Many prominent figures in the US gov't, media, and financial sector have jewish names, which further reinforces the opinion of these people. The very fact that it is taboo to criticize Israel, or the actions of a jewish group, under the threat of being labeled an anti-semite by the ADL, makes this point highly believable to non muslims.

It's an opinion that's not impossible to support. That doesn't mean that it's correct, and it's not my opinion, but it can be argued.

As for Chretien's response, or lack thereof, give me one good reason why the prime minister of Canada should fall all over himself to condemn the leader of a foreign nation for stating his beliefs, which can be argued and supported. It doesn't concern Canada, it has no impact on us, and I'm quite sure Jean has more important things to consider in his final days in office, namely the smooth transfer of power to Paul Martin, and pushing through all the legislation he wishes while he still can.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by Cbass

Well of course he meant something by it. This is an easy thing to believe when you live in an islamic country, seeing the most powerful country in the world, the US, unilaterally support an apartheid state, Israel, in their invasion and subsequent illegal 30 year occupation of several islamic nations, based on the premise of premption. In case you haven't noticed, the rest of the world doesn't believe in wars of premption.

Many prominent figures in the US gov't, media, and financial sector have jewish names, which further reinforces the opinion of these people. The very fact that it is taboo to criticize Israel, or the actions of a jewish group, under the threat of being labeled an anti-semite by the ADL, makes this point highly believable to non muslims.

It's an opinion that's not impossible to support. That doesn't mean that it's correct, and it's not my opinion, but it can be argued.

As for Chretien's response, or lack thereof, give me one good reason why the prime minister of Canada should fall all over himself to condemn the leader of a foreign nation for stating his beliefs, which can be argued and supported. It doesn't concern Canada, it has no impact on us, and I'm quite sure Jean has more important things to consider in his final days in office, namely the smooth transfer of power to Paul Martin, and pushing through all the legislation he wishes while he still can.

2 questions.

What's a prempt and premption?

Is Canada now an Islamic state?

[Cbass]

2 answers.

1) A spelling mistake

2) No, and I stated those were not my beliefs. My personal opinion is that zionists use, and possibly even propagate the myth of an international jewish conspiracy because it gives their opponent the handy label of an antisemite.

I read the ADL website from time to time, it's interesting how peaceful protestors against Israeli occupation of Palestinian countries are described as rabid antisemites, spreading hate and intolerance...

http://www.adl.org/adl.asp

[Ludelover]

Originally Posted by freakray

2 questions.

What's a prempt and premption?

Is Canada now an Islamic state?

yes, yes it is
is the US a jewish state?, because your government consistantly backs up Israel.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by Ludelover

yes, yes it is
is the US a jewish state?, because your government consistantly backs up Israel.

It's not 'my' government, I am not American, I am only currently resident in the USA.

So back atcha boy.

[Ludelover]

Originally Posted by freakray

It's not 'my' government, I am not American, I am only currently resident in the USA.

So back atcha boy.

you pay taxes don't you? you have the ability to vote, correct? you abide by their laws, don't you? if they arent governing YOU, I wonder who is. You must have some sort of visa, anyways, this is very dumb point to argue, I was making a mockery of your truly stupid question, by replying with an equally foolish one. I guess free speech and open mindedness are not all the common in your neck of the woods, but fortunately for us we CAN think the way we want and speak our minds. That lecturer came here to talk about his beliefs, no one was forced to listen to him, just as jewish lecturers arrive here and talk about this issue from their point of view. If the pm doesnt want to get involved, so be it.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by Ludelover

you pay taxes don't you? you have the ability to vote, correct? you abide by their laws, don't you? if they arent governing YOU, I wonder who is. You must have some sort of visa, anyways, this is very dumb point to argue, I was making a mockery of your truly stupid question, by replying with an equally foolish one. I guess free speech and open mindedness are not all the common in your neck of the woods, but fortunately for us we CAN think the way we want and speak our minds. That lecturer came here to talk about his beliefs, no one was forced to listen to him, just as jewish lecturers arrive here and talk about this issue from their point of view. If the pm doesnt want to get involved, so be it.

Do I have to draw you a picture?
I am NOT an American, which translates into I do not have the right to vote.
Having a visa does NOT grant you all the same rights as an American, it only allows you to be resident in America and you are subject to American law.
Do you understand the visa concept?
Have you ever left 'your neck of the woods'?
You're right, free speech is only free as long as you're saying the correct thing down here.
As for open-mindedness, I am very open minded, how about you?

As for my statement you're pursueing, it was based on the fact that this thread is about a statement made by Chretien and Cbass's comment:

"Well of course he meant something by it. This is an easy thing to believe when you live in an islamic country"

Come back when you can read the whole thread and understand the context in which my comment was made.

[Ludelover]

Originally Posted by freakray

Do I have to draw you a picture?
I am NOT an American, which translates into I do not have the right to vote.
Having a visa does NOT grant you all the same rights as an American, it only allows you to be resident in America and you are subject to American law.
Do you understand the visa concept?
Have you ever left 'your neck of the woods'?
You're right, free speech is only free as long as you're saying the correct thing down here.
As for open-mindedness, I am very open minded, how about you?

As for my statement you're pursueing, it was based on the fact that this thread is about a statement made by Chretien and Cbass's comment:

"Well of course he meant something by it. This is an easy thing to believe when you live in an islamic country"

Come back when you can read the whole thread and understand the context in which my comment was made.

Please teacher, please explain what a visa is, thats a credit card right?
And yes, I have left my neck of the woods, to be exact: Europe, Asia, US and even Cuba. I am very openminded, but your question about Canada being an islamic state was so ridiculous that I thought you were being sarcasic, my bad.
I believe he meant that the lecturer was living in an islamic country, which is not Canada.

[T4 Primera]

This labeling of everybody who says anything against Isreal as antisemetic is the same as labeling critics of the war anti-american. It does nothing but confuse the issues.

I personally agree with the Malaysian Prime Ministers comments and I base my opinion on my interpretation of historical facts. I can be called anti-zionist but don't call me anti-semetic.

I oppose the war in Iraq and I base my opinion on my interpretation of historical facts. I can be called anti-neocon but don't call me anti-american.

This is why the US has a problem with Muslims in the first place. They are automatically assumed to be wrong and bad without bothering to investigate the REAL reasons that they do what they do and say what they say.

Notice I say Muslims meaning some Muslims, not all Muslims. Just like Mr. Mahathir said Jews meaning some Jews, not all Jews. If I say Americans of course I mean some Americans, not all Americans.

The practise of mis-labeling people after such comments is a big barrier to actually understanding what was said and why.

If Prime Minister Jean Chrétien did not express his PERSONAL opinion on the comments then so be it. He either has no opinion or does not wish to express his opinion. Regardless of what he said, he would lose politically in some way. Silence is probably the smartest choice for him.

[Cbass]

Very well said, T4

[DVS LT1]

Absolutely nothing that PM Jean says or does suprises me anymore - he's a puppet now and has been for some time. I get nervous any time that guy opens his mouth in public, and often whisper to myself, "Come on....split it out....you can do it...what are you babbling about?", then he'll switch over to French and I will be able to relax.

Chretien is so useless as a public figure and says some of the dumbest things himself, that I'm glad he didn't comment on this issue because he would most likely have STUCK HIS FOOT IN HIS MOUTH! For fuck sake, this is the same G8 leader some years ago who during a press conference with Clinton was asked "what do you think about all the drugs coming into the U.S. from Canada", and Jean's response was, "wuuu, you know, its trade!" Before anyone had a chance to react Clinton butts in and says "He said DRUGS Mr. Prime Minister, not TRUCKS!"

Chretien's response, "OH, well.....uh, you know, ha, thats different story"

Fucking goof - get the hell out of the House already and go write your memoirs.

[Cbass]

Ah, and who would make a better leader for this country? Based on his leadership through the last decade, I would say Chretien has been one of the best leaders this country ever had.

Looking at the alternatives, I'd rather Chretien stay on than Paul Martin take office, as he's far further right, and is concerned more with keeping the banks happy and budgets than he is with social programs and the welfare of his constituents.

Steven Harper? Give me a break, that guy is a loon. He'd have us praying 3 times a day.