SR20DET's

[APEXSER]

Here is the next chapter in my "Mini Series".

People usually find themselves wanting the power of an SR20DET, but what they fail to see is that a DET isn't for everyone!

There are several SR20DET's that are being distributed here in the states! All DET's come in either RWD or AWD configurations! They come from the Bluebird SSS (US Altima), Pulsar GTiR, 180SX or Silvia (US 240SX). All of these cars are disposed of after so many miles in Japan, usually between 40K-60K. They are then stripped in junk yards in Japan and sold to ditributors for sales in other countries such as the US and UK.

Now, most people fail to recongnize that in Japan Oil changes are far from being habit in Japan. I have seen many motors that have the original oil filter from the day of assembly. Not only that, but a lot of times the oil is black and varnish is present! This has led to engine failure due to spun rod bearings.

When purchasing a DET there are many things to look for; completeness of motor and turbo retalted components, physical condition, any leaks or loss of compression. Many people have swapped in motors without checking rod/main bearings only to have engine failure within a couple of weeks.

Pros & Cons

Pros
1. Will fit 91-94 Sentra SE-R, 91-93 NX2000, 91-96 G20, 95-97 200SX SE-R, 98 200SX SE-R, 98-99 Sentra SE, & 99-00 G20
2. Can replace High Mileage motors
3. More Power
4. Low Compression
5. Bluebird/US Spec SR20DE parts are interchangable

Cons
1. Lack of history of motor
2. Possible internal damage
3. GTiR/S14/S15 parts can be difficult to find
4. Cost


With this said, I will continue by explaining some differences throughout SR20DET's.

1. Bluebird SSS AWD SR20DET
205 hp & 199 ft/lb
8.5:1 CR
T25 Turbo
Hydraulic Lifters
Sodium Filled Exhaust Valves
Small Oil Cooler
370cc Injectors
Top Mount Intercooler

2. Pulsar GTiR AWD SR20DET
230 hp & 225 ft/lb
8.3:1 CR
T28 Turbo
Solid Lifters
Sodium Filled Exhaust Valves
Larger Oil Cooler
444cc Injectors
Top Mount Intercooler
Individual Throttle Bodies

3. S13 180SX & Silvia RWD SR20DET
205 hp & 199 ft/lb
8.5:1 CR
T25 Turbo
Hydraulic Lifters
Sodium Filled Exhaust Valves
370cc Injectors
Side Mount Intercooler

4. S14 Silvia RWD SR20DET
225 hp & 220 ft/lb
8.5:1 CR
T28 Ball Bearing Turbo
Hydraulic Lifters
Sodium Filled Exhaust Valves
370cc Injectors
Side Mount Intercooler
Variable Valve Timing

5. S15 Silvia RWD SR20DET
240 hp & 230 ft/lb
8.5:1 CR
T28 ball Bearing Turbo
Hydraulic Lifters
Sodium Filled Exhaust Valves
370cc Injectors
Side Mount Intercooler
Variable Valve Timing

The *ONLY* SR20DET's that will fit in US Spec FWD cars are the Bluebird DET and GTiR DET!

Most Bluebird DET parts are interchangable with US Spec SR20DE's.

An SR20ET is really only cost effective when a high mileage car is in need of a newer motor. There are many aftermarket turbo kits available that can surpass a DET for about the same price.

I hope this helps!

[AznVirus]

can you include what to check for when getting one? check under valve cover right? what about the turbo, how to figure out if its good.

[APEXSER]

You will want to either get pics of under the valve cover; make sure you don't see metal shavings or any other foreign objects.
Check the oil pan drain fitting for any metal shavings.
Ask for compression test & leakdown test results.
Check the turbo shaft for play.
Look for puddles of oil in the compressor housing.
Look for oil in the intercooler piping.
Look for dented oil pans!

[P10DET]

Originally posted by APEXSER
I have seen many motors that have the original oil filter from the day of assembly.

Louis! You can't tell that.

Originally posted by APEXSER
Not only that, but a lot of times the oil is black and varnish is present!

Black oil would bother me. Varnish does not.

Originally posted by APEXSER
This has led to engine failure due to spun rod bearings.

You can't say that definitively either. JDM SR20DEs don't seem to have this problem.

Originally posted by APEXSER
When purchasing a DET there are many things to look for; completeness of motor and turbo retalted components, physical condition, any leaks or loss of compression.

I would not trust any compression tests. The FSM procedure for checking compression requires the engine to be warmed and cranked over by the starter. I serioiusly doubt any of the importers can or would do a compression test properly. Leak down tests can be done at any time, but I doubt they would do them either.

Originally posted by APEXSER
Many people have swapped in motors without checking rod/main bearings only to have engine failure within a couple of weeks.

Yep. Any time you swap in a DET it is recommended that you replace the rod bearings and main seals.

Originally posted by APEXSER
An SR20ET is really only cost effective when a high mileage car is in need of a newer motor. There are many aftermarket turbo kits available that can surpass a DET for about the same price.

Quite true, given that a DIY DET swap will run anywhere from $2,500 to $4,000. I personally think it comes down to engine miles vs. performance goals, vs. hassle factor.

The 9.5:1 CR SR20DE takes to turbocharging quite nicely. When folks first started turbocharging this engine in any great numbers, there were a lot of questions. I've yet to hear of one of these engines (using a JWT ECU) blow up (with reasonable boost levels).

[P10DET]

Originally posted by APEXSER
You will want to either get pics of under the valve cover; make sure you don't see metal shavings or any other foreign objects.

Oh God, I should hope you won't see that. They place would be pretty stupid if that was present. I'd look more for discoloring on the cams. This would indicate overheating and almost certainly be accompanied by worn cams. This is usually caused by the cam oiling tubes being clogged.

Originally posted by APEXSER
Check the turbo shaft for play.

This is critical. I had a friend pick out my DET. It was somewhat varnished (demerit points, but not bad). But, the turbo had zero play. That's what you want.

[AznVirus]

Originally posted by APEXSER

Ask for compression test & leakdown test results.

how do they perform the leakdown test?

Originally posted by APEXSER

Check the turbo shaft for play.

what should you check for? the bearings and compressor wheel?

[APEXSER]

Originally posted by P10DET


Louis! You can't tell that.

George, I have literally seen a motor with an oil filter that had *never* been changed! It was literally sealed onto the oil filter fitting. It wasan't just over torqued either. The oil was black, soot was coating internals, varnish was present, the oil level was extremely low, I cracked teh drain it seems for the first time ever, and metal shavings were in the pan.



Black oil would bother me. Varnish does not.

I have seen many Primera/Bluebirds motor first hand at yards in California, and I have been surprised with the small number of motors with varnish. Most of the motors I have seen had extremely black thin oil!



You can't say that definitively either. JDM SR20DEs don't seem to have this problem.

No, Pirmeras that I have seen don't usually have this problem, but we are talking about DET's here, George!


I would not trust any compression tests. The FSM procedure for checking compression requires the engine to be warmed and cranked over by the starter. I serioiusly doubt any of the importers can or would do a compression test properly. Leak down tests can be done at any time, but I doubt they would do them either.

*Some* yards actually have them tested before shipment to the states. I know Karim @ R 390 Sports actually has people hand pick the motors from yards in Japan before the large importers get to them. His motors are hand picked and the quality of the DET's I have seen from him are top quality! You will pay a premium for these motors. I know he disributed many motors to Unstable-Hybrids & Heavy Throttle!


Yep. Any time you swap in a DET it is recommended that you replace the rod bearings and main seals.

This is very true!


Quite true, given that a DIY DET swap will run anywhere from $2,500 to $4,000. I personally think it comes down to engine miles vs. performance goals, vs. hassle factor.

The 9.5:1 CR SR20DE takes to turbocharging quite nicely. When folks first started turbocharging this engine in any great numbers, there were a lot of questions. I've yet to hear of one of these engines (using a JWT ECU) blow up (with reasonable boost levels).

[lloyd_nickens]

At what hp level do those 440 injectors stop at?

[APEXSER]

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens
At what hp level do those 440 injectors stop at?

Basing this on the 50lb/hr (525cc) injectors @ 3 bar I would assume 275-300 whp!

[lloyd_nickens]

So let me get this straight......

440cc injectors can allow me to produce anywhere from 275 to 300 hp at the wheels!! Are they cheaper/any easier to find than the 525cc injectors?



If it is cheaper would it be a viable injector if I was using (if I recall correctly) a T28 (or is it the T3/T04E)?

[APEXSER]

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens
So let me get this straight......

440cc injectors can allow me to produce anywhere from 275 to 300 hp at the wheels!! Are they cheaper/any easier to find than the 525cc injectors?



If it is cheaper would it be a viable injector if I was using (if I recall correctly) a T28 (or is it the T3/T04E)?

The 444cc injectors come from the GTiR, so you woul dhve to find someone selling their stock injectors from thier GTiR! These injectors are Low Impedence whereas the 370cc injectors & 50 lb/hr injectors are High Impedence so you will have to run Ballast Resistors for the GTiR Injectors! The 370cc injectors are easier to come by then the GTiR ones. You may end up paying more for teh GTiR injectors than MSD 50 lb/hr injectors!

[P10DET]

Originally posted by APEXSER
George, I have literally seen a motor with an oil filter that had *never* been changed! It was literally sealed onto the oil filter fitting. It wasan't just over torqued either. The oil was black, soot was coating internals, varnish was present, the oil level was extremely low, I cracked teh drain it seems for the first time ever, and metal shavings were in the pan

I still don't see how you can draw that conclusion about never having the oil changed. You simply cannot. As for the shavings, that's not only rare, but if the importer put that engine on the line to sell, that's pretty stupid and I wouldn't go there. Most of the good ones will check them out and do some rudimentary cleaning. I've seen that going on at Soken when I was there last year.

Originally posted by APEXSER
No, Pirmeras that I have seen don't usually have this problem, but we are talking about DET's here, George!

I am merely saying that you are again drawing a conclusion that you cannot support. I agree that DETs tend to spin bearings for some reason, but you can't prove the cause. I think you're just drawing an improper conclusions. The spun bearings occur, but I don't think you can link the reasons as you have.

Originally posted by APEXSER
*Some* yards actually have them tested before shipment to the states.

That's cool. But most don't and cannot do it properly in The States. That wouldn't necessarily prevent them from telling you otherwise.

I'm not trying to argue with you Louis. I just think you are drawing some conclusions that aren't correct and probably unnecessarily scaring some people away from DETs. I otherwise agree with everything you have posted here (in the G20 forum).

[Moppie]

I have to agree with P10DET here,
Most of the engines sent to the US and else where do not come from running cars just pulled off the road, but come out of wreacked cars recently crashed, or with bad rust or a blown g/box or diff etc.
Most of the good running cars are sold to overseas markets like here in NZ or the UK, or even Australia.
Some running cars are broken down for parts, but when you talking about rare cars like GTi-Rs it is only a very small number, its easier and cheaper to sell the whole car overseas.

As for the Japanese being bad at serviceing, well it donst seem to have that much of an effect on all the imports running around NZ most of which are well past 100,000ks and still going strong. Ask any of the guys in the Skyline Forum, or the many Primera owners in here, most of them own imports, and most have done high milage.

The importers and wreackers in Japan and here in NZ (a LARGE number of engines in the US actualy come via NZ where they are removed from complete cars bought from Japan) do not look after the engines very well.
I have a Toyota 4agze that was literaly dropped out of a Trueno, the alternator is broken and the loom has been cut, Yesterday I was in the back of Honda wreacker and they had piles of Engines stacked 2-3 high waiting to be steam cleaned before being sold overseas or to local shops. None of them were being compression checked or being given oil changes. They were treated with the lest amount of respect they could manage.
Iv even driven an old sentra round a wreackers yard doing timed laps untill it was so smashed up it over heated, the Motor was sold out of it the next day.

You take you chances with buying a secondhand engine from Japan, and its virtualy impossible to prove its service history, however the actual number horror stories about bad engines is very small, and most will last a long time and give very good service, the Japanese have learned a lot about building reliable engines.
And when you into performance and very high output engines like a DET then you have to accept that they do only have a limited life.

Some very interesting information on all the differnt DET engines though, I always wondered what all the difernce's were.
For those wondering the engine with sodium valves need to run on Leaded fuel. Or use something like Morays upper cylinder lubricant.
However not all the DETs have sodium valves, I just cant remember which, but it will be the later ones.

[Cue-Ball]

Moppie,

I think you are incorrect about the DETs with sodium valves requiring leaded fuel. Sodium valves are designed to run cooler than normal valves because the sodium inside them helps dissipate the heat. The reason for cars using leaded fuel is because valve seats used to be softer than they are today, and the chemicals in leaded fuel helped keep the seats from receeding. I have not heard of a car needing leaded fuel since the early 70's. Not to mention the fact that using leaded gasoline in a modern car will KILL your catalytic converter (the additives in the "lead" neutralize the chemicals which make the converter work). I highly doubt that these turbocharged marvels of horsepower require leaded gasoline. I think where the confusion comes in is that leaded gasoline used a few different chemicals as the "lead". One of those chemicals was sodium (others being potassium or phosphorous). I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm 99% sure that no DET engine requires leaded fuel - sodium valve equipped or not.

-Grant

[G-Forces]

I've never heard of a DET needing leaded fuel.