How does the S2000 do it

[tigerirons]

Hey Honda guys!
I'm a BMW owner (2002 330i) and my car's redline is a hair over 6,000 RPM. I was wondering how an engine is able to rev that high (9000 RPM right???) without blowing up.

Thanx

[G-Forces]

Good Engineering. Honda has a lot of experience building bikes with 10k+ red lines. I wouldn't be too hard to apply some of that experience to a car engine.

[tigerirons]

Thanks G-forces

Does that mean that BMW's or other cars that have a 6000 RPM redline are poorly engineered? What does that S2000 or the BMW M3 for that matter (10000 RPM redline) that other cars don't have?

[G-Forces]

Originally posted by tigerirons
Thanks G-forces

Does that mean that BMW's or other cars that have a 6000 RPM redline are poorly engineered? What does that S2000 or the BMW M3 for that matter (10000 RPM redline) that other cars don't have?

Not at all. BMW has some fine engineering. It just means that the goal of that motor is probably more usable low end torque. Where on the M3 and S2000 and any other high reving high hp motor the goal is power at top. This is better for track racing on a track where you'll spend most of your time in the upper rpm range.

Making a motor rev high takes a combination of things and it's more expensive to do to. Lighter valve train components to prevent valve float, lightened flywheels, micro polished cranks, high tolerances, etc. That's why you won't see a stock Echo reving to 9k rpm.

[Jay!]

Originally posted by G-Forces
That's why you won't see a stock Echo reving to 9k rpm.

LOL! Stock ECHOs don't have tachometers.

[F20C]

E46 M3 have a redline of 8000rpm as well. So BMW also use the RPM Multiplyer method to extract power as well.

Honda use some very fine materials such as Fiber-Reinforced (FRM) cylinder walls. Basically they kept all the parts in the engine lightweighted so it can take the beaten of high rpms. Also the most advance VTEC system to date. i-VTEC is a start of a new generation and it's not included.

[Z06Lover]

ford made an engine that revved to 10k back in 1960's that was a 3 liter v-8. It is the engine that all modern f-1 engines are based on. The LS-88 engine in the vette in the late 60's had 12.5:1 compression and revved to 7.5k and it was a 427 7 liters. Engines like this stopped being put in production cars when all the emissions requirements became so strict. Ferrari has been producing many High revving much larger displacement engines. back in the 50's GM produced a 1.8 liter engine that revved to 9k that produced 180HP....so it isn't like honda has the only technology like this...it's actually the exact opposite. Many car companies just choose to go a different route to make power.

[tigerirons]

If a car has a redline of 7500 or more, does that mean that there is less power in the low range? or more power overall?

[F20C]

You know how hp works?

[tigerirons]

Probably a little, but not enough. Would you be so kind as to explain to me?

[tigerirons]

Probably a little, but not enough. Would you be so kind as to explain to me?

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by tigerirons
Probably a little, but not enough. Would you be so kind as to explain to me?

HP = Torque* (rpm of engine)/5250
ex:
if your torqe at 4k was 200lb/ft then
HP = 200 * (4000/5250) = 152HP
so as your rpm's climb if your torque climbs or stays level you will always see an increase in HP. HP has an element of time in it, while torque does not. So torque by itself doesn't equate to speed because if you put a 10 ft long wrench on an axel and stood on it (lets say you weight 150 lbs) 150*10 = 1500 ft/lbs which is a ton of torque but since it is moving slowly (lets say 2 rpm's) you are getting low HP and the car aint moving fast...you HP at 2 rpms at 1500 ft/lbs is
.6HP

While HP is a contrived number (it is just a ratio * torque) it is interesting because it shows accel you can expect from a force applied by a spinning machine (your engine).

[Spec2 Girl]

Just a wee bit of info that you may find interesting (or may not ). My FTO has a redline of 8,500rpm and a torque figure of 460Nm at the wheels (at 3,300rpm)!

[Z06Lover]

Originally posted by FTO Girl
Just a wee bit of info that you may find interesting (or may not ). My FTO has a redline of 8,500rpm and a torque figure of 460Nm at the wheels (at 3,300rpm)!

us stupid americans are a) don't know what a Nm is compared to ft/lb and b) too lazy to look it up!! WEll, I am at least.

could you give us US units..and what is an FTO? What make and model? I am guessing it isn't available in the US.

also is it modified? turbo charged? both?

[Spec2 Girl]

Originally posted by Z06Lover


us stupid americans are a) don't know what a Nm is compared to ft/lb and b) too lazy to look it up!! WEll, I am at least.

could you give us US units..and what is an FTO? What make and model? I am guessing it isn't available in the US.

also is it modified? turbo charged? both?

Hehe, I don't know if this is totally right but I think it works out to be about 345 ft/lb of torque!

As far as your other questions. The FTO is (or was) produced by Mitsubishi Japan. It isn't available in the US (as far as I know anyway)! It is a 2L NA engine (mine has the MIVEC engine in it). The only mods done to my car so far are a catless 2 1/4" exhaust, Trust Airinx pod filter.

Feel free to ask me any questions (or you can also check out my website by clicking on the pic).