can I do anything with this?

[Samhorns]

I have a 90 civic hatchback in the most bare bones config. I mean this sucker only has the 4 speed and everything. 70 alleged HP out of the box bare bones commuter mobeely. Now the car is fine, rolling 160K and getting ready to retire her before engine fixes get more pricey around the 200K mark. BUT, I'm thinking of making a little toy out of it instead of just selling it to some brat kid who will just throw a stupid loud muffler on it, some goofy miscolored body panels and beat the piss out of it.

Question for the gear heads is this, is there anything REAL that can be done with this drivetrain or would I have to start with dropping the entire drivetrain because this motor is just too dog? Example, is this a simple head swap, new fuel system kinda deal or is this block altogether a boat anchor?

[SiZ]

Boat anchor, paper weight, ugly coffee table, tie your dog to it, throw it in the back of a truck for traction in the winter..

Sure, there's lots of uses for that motor.

[dirty91crx]

main draw back of the std civics is the tranny. its basically an HF tranny less 5th gear. easiest way to gain more performance is to switch out the tranny to either an si or dx tranny. to motor itself is not a dog. best bet by far would be to just drop a b series engine into it. dont get me wrong the lil d can do lots. im pushin 220whp on a 55shot of zex. all done under 1g total. anyways still my opinion to drop in a bseries engine. if you cant afford it, find yourself a d16z6 out of the del sol si or the d16y8 from the civic ex and drop it into you civic...bolts right up. just need to do a little re wiring which isnt hard at all. also i concur on the mpfi swap. its will by far be the best upgrade you could ever do for your car...BTW i have a complete MPFI swap for your car you will need nothing else for $125+shipping. and i will argue the paper weight comment posted earlier.... 90 d15b2 on a 55 shot of zex all done on a stock bottom end and for under 1grand. so its not just good for a paper weight reason i chose this motor...i had it...i work at a machine shop so i can build parts....still cheaper than a b series swap. but i will add its a pain in the ass to drive on the street....it is streetable but drivability below 3000rpm's suck.

[Samhorns]

Thanks much dirty91crx, this is zactly what I was looking for. You've given me a great deal to chew on.

Okay so first off the tranny needs to go, I'm assuming this is so A) I can get the ratios closer for faster accel and B) get a 5th gear, which admittedly was the most annoying thing about this car was not having a highway gear. Though admittedly she's no slouch as a gas miser, was getting about 42mpg, but hey that's what the girls new civic hybrids for. Time to do something more 'fun' with this rodent.

Now by a MPFI swap I'm assuming we're talking chucking that pathetic single port throttle body setup for a full rail? Am I getting that right or is this head and all? School me master. and you say you have one of these laying around?

[dirty91crx]

an hf crx running in top knotch condition can get in excess of 50mpg with the 5spd. converting to mpfi requires swapping out intake manifolds.....adding a injector resistor box and harness...along with some repinning at the ecu connectors...a job that would take about a full day to complete but well worth the effort in the long run. you can go ahead and do a mini-me conversion also....but everyone will say it is better to just swap out to a d16z6 or a y8.....its up to you. i say do the mpfi conversion.....get the tranny situation straight.....find yourself a d16z6 and build on top of that....

[Samhorns]

okay by d16z6 are you talking a head swap? Understand Z6 is the head with higher compression/4 valve per and all no? or by d16 you mean full swap to a 92 and newer block.

[dirty91crx]

find a complete z6....build it and then put in the hatch.....

[Samhorns]

well as you all prolly knew it's a d15b1. Finally I'm catching up to the lingo after tooling around your forums for a bit. Seems for the most part unless I want to dump crazy money into bolt ons that SiZ was just being brutally honest. Thanks for all the pointers though dirty91crx, but in the end even your saying swappy blocky. Read around and even in a day or two I see everyone's point. Sure as you said I could pull it down to decent quarters but I'll spend the same in toy in the end that I prolly would have just dropping a new block. Now if only I could find a B20 laying around LOL.....

[dirty91crx]

hahaha well sounds like youll have fun with this project.....i really dont know where to find b20 blocks and what they cost.....im more into just building the cheaper d block....especially because parts are easier to come by in the junkyards.....reason i say swap the engine is the d15 is a rev happy engine....needing a rev happy tranny to really bring out its potential. being that the hatch is slightly heavier than the crx you could use the extra tq from the d16.....me personaly i like high revving motors....started of with a chevy 327....now im in a d15 shifting at 8300 on the track. thats just me. but whatever route you chose keep in mind availability of parts as you will eventually break something.....plus the cost factor to build your engine......too each his own

[4GZChatch]

The nice thing about the STD's is that they are lighter than any of the other hatchies, if I'm not mistaken, by about 150lbs., which means that you have less load to pull. I am in the teardown stage of a B20 project, and, having had all of the D-series motors, I have to say that this is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, the D-series is a great motor, bulletproof from most aspects, but you are just starting with a lower total potential. If you start with a motor that is pushing 140 horse or 160 horse, before building up, you obviously get a faster car with more driveability and more potential. That is my but like Dirty91CRX said, to each his own. If you plan on putting in a B-series, plan on at least $2000 for it. If you want to stay D-series, you can get it done in under a grand. My current ride w/ a ZC DOHC 1.6L is a pretty good motor, good pull, easy swap, and cost me less than $1000. I can beat unmodified GS-R's and easily trash on non-turbo eclipses and even the new v6 eclipses. However, it is a motor that never came to America in a stock car, and parts are hard to find, and then you have to take into account the age of the motor and its internals. If you want to go budget, get a Z6 swap. There are tons of parts and they are a great motor. Then you can add a turbo or something. If you want to do a longer, more gradual buildup, which will cost more but yield more in the long run, go B-series.

This has been endlessly debated on these forums, as you may well know, you just have to decide which factors push you in which direction... Good luck and happy tuning!

[dirty91crx]

lol the endless debate over any engine....hehehe will go on and on and on.....but i dont remmember if i said this....d series cheaper to build under 200whp....b series.....can go on and on and on.....lol

[sastanley]

Hey there Samhorns...welcome

The advice here is great...so I really have nothing to add. I chose to buy a ZC (essentially a DOHC version of the D16a6 imported from Japan at 130HP) for a good deal and rebuild it. I am just about ready to swap it in.

You STD is a nice light platform to start with..the potential is great! Good Luck!!

[Samhorns]

You have all been a great help and one heck of a source of info. I certainly have found the right forum if I decide to tinker that's for sure. Now here's a scenerio and some questions for those interested. It's obvious the most cost effective way to get good power outta this rodent is to drop the current drivetrain (D15B1), but the question is what is A) the cheaper solution ie most bang for the buck, and B) the easiest straight swap. I'm already finding D16Z6s and a slew of other head combos on the D16 but they are all so far falling around 2K for everything to include a tranny, this 4 speed just doesn't cut it, but I'm also finding B16s with complete tranny and ECU for 1200-1500 but I know they need mounting kits and cable and wiring and everything else sense they are integra motors. Guess I'm looking for the best break ease of swap to price for the most vroom. Could you guys respond with good sites to chase down motors? I'm googling it and still pretty green so if you all know good shops that have done you right in the past let me know. Oh and I mentioned the B20 as a pipe dream, ya I know it'd work but I'm also aware it'd be quite a bit more costly.

[dirty91crx]

hmmmmmn ive gotten my hands on a few zc's.....$650 picked up from the importing yard out here comes complete...engine, tranny, ecu, axles.....where are you finding d series engines for around 2k? damn there realy tryin to rape u....you get them outta a junkyard for around $500 engine tranny....http://www.importautosalvage.com thats where i got the zc set ups from....im not so sure of there stock now as it was low about 6 months ago....but you will be able to find jdm b series engines, tranny combos there for dirt cheap if you pick them up.....my buddy paid 1100 for his b16a1 complete. btw i just looked at the site....they got a jdm h22 complete swap with lsd tranny....3300. where you gonna get them like that?

[Samhorns]

full front clips, much nice, lsd tranny though? haven't picked up that piece of lingo yet