usdm b18c1 vs jdm b16a2

[jameskersten]

found a good price on a usdm b18c1 at a local wreckers. thing is its about $500 dollars canadian more then what the jdm b16a2 i was gonna buy this week. question is, is that extra money worth it? i know the hp numbers are about the same, tourque is a little higher in the b18 and of course the extra .2liter displacement. i drove this weekend my friends eg6 with the b18c1 in it, which he installed last week, found it really fun, can i expect something close to the same in a b16a2?

[megotgsr]

get the b18c1 its alot faster! 500 bucks would'nt be enough to make the b16 as quick. i got a 98' b18c1 in my civic hatch andd when it only had intake and exhaust i used to beat my friend with b16 in his civic hb and he had jdm type r intake manifold,dc header, clutch&flywheel, ported & pollished, pistons and rods, jdm type r camshafts. he ran 16.1 i ran 15.8

[B16EJ1]

Originally Posted by megotgsr

get the b18c1 its alot faster! 500 bucks would'nt be enough to make the b16 as quick. i got a 98' b18c1 in my civic hatch andd when it only had intake and exhaust i used to beat my friend with b16 in his civic hb and he had jdm type r intake manifold,dc header, clutch&flywheel, ported & pollished, pistons and rods, jdm type r camshafts. he ran 16.1 i ran 15.8

I agree that it will cost more to get the B16A's trq numbers up there but basically your friend can't drive. The differences in your times are small enough that it's driver error. Stock B16's are rated at better times. Yes the B18C1 is overall, a better base to work on but do not totally disregard the B16 based on, IMHO, a terrible driver w/a B16. I've raced a friends GSR powered hatch and sometimes he pulled on me and sometimes I pulled on him. It's all driver. Can you beat a B18C1 w/ a B16???................Of course. Which is a better base???........The B18C1.

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by B16EJ1

I agree that it will cost more to get the B16A's trq numbers up there but basically your friend can't drive. The differences in your times are small enough that it's driver error. Stock B16's are rated at better times. Yes the B18C1 is overall, a better base to work on but do not totally disregard the B16 based on, IMHO, a terrible driver w/a B16. I've raced a friends GSR powered hatch and sometimes he pulled on me and sometimes I pulled on him. It's all driver. Can you beat a B18C1 w/ a B16???................Of course. Which is a better base???........The B18C1.

I agree, the B18C1 is a better base. Thats not saying the B16A is a bad base to work with, but for $500 more the B18C1 is definatly worth it.

[jcrx]

B16A is a better motor, IMO, better head, IM, R/S, etc... The B18C1 is better for cruising around town, but the B16A2 makes power way high, so I would say it should be dictated by driving style. Do you like to rev real high, or more torquey low end driving.

[jameskersten]

15.8? wow no offense thats pretty bad. my friend with a b18c1 in his eg6 ran a 14.6 this weekend, bone stock except for intake and exhaust

[95civicman]

Originally Posted by jameskersten

15.8? wow no offense thats pretty bad. my friend with a b18c1 in his eg6 ran a 14.6 this weekend, bone stock except for intake and exhaust

maybe he lives way up north in the mountains, and he raced on a hot and humid day??

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by jcrx

B16A is a better motor, IMO, better head, IM, R/S, etc... The B18C1 is better for cruising around town, but the B16A2 makes power way high, so I would say it should be dictated by driving style. Do you like to rev real high, or more torquey low end driving.

Okay, The JDM B16A2 makes (numbers are flywheel HP, not at the wheels) 168 HP@7800rpm and 116ft-lbs torque@7300rpm. The USDM GSR B18C1 makes 170HP@7600 rpm and 128 ft/lbs torque@6200rpm. For only $500 more, the B18C1 is the better deal here. Greater displacement, and as a result, much better low-end torque. The HP numbers are virtually the same, sans the GSR hits a claimed peak of 2 more HP and 200 rpm lower, and no one will complain about that. I have heard the R/S ratio agruement time and time again, but the fact is the GSR has more displacement, greater torque, and in the end, is a better base to start with. This is not knocking the B16A by any means, but to say it the better motor is unfair. I mean, 7600 vs 7800 isnt too much different if you like to rev high, Plus the GSR has a 8100 RPM redline. The big advantage is GSR has far greater low-end torque. Also, if you go FI, the increased displacment will make a difference, plus lower Comperssion Ratios are an advantage for FI, every little bit counts. The JDM B16A2 has a 10.4:1 c/r, the USDM B18C1 has a 10:1 c/r. Still by no means a great FI c/r, but a little better than 10.4:1. If you are really concerned with the B16A heads better flow, a port and polish will quickly take car of that. While the head is off, re-shape the quench area for better combustion. Also, if you are seriously building up the motor, increasing the bore size when you re-sleeve and close the deck won't create a problem, and will solve that also. But I am into heavy mods and high output now. For me, the much increased low-end torque and the 1797 cc vs 1595 cc is worth $500 more dollers. If it's not worth it to him? Thats okay, the B16A isn't a bad motor, the GSR is just a better base. The increased displacement is a big difference. The increased low-end torque makes a huge difference though, especially on the street. Low-end torque rules the street.

Originally Posted by jameskersten

15.8? wow no offense thats pretty bad. my friend with a b18c1 in his eg6 ran a 14.6 this weekend, bone stock except for intake and exhaust

When the GSR first came out in 94, and car and driver tested it, they ran a 15.2@93MPH 1/4 mile time on the stock GSR. So I would agree, 15.8 for a GSR in a Civic seems odd. 14.6 sounds closer to what I would expect, since your not going to drop the motor into the much lighter civic chassie and loose speed and time.

[banditkiller]

I would hope.....that you could run faster than a 15.8......my friends 91 crx with a stock b-16...i/h/e on d/r 's ran a 13.64.......

[jcrx]

Okay, The JDM B16A2 makes (numbers are flywheel HP, not at the wheels) 168 HP@7800rpm and 116ft-lbs torque@7300rpm. The USDM GSR B18C1 makes 170HP@7600 rpm and 128 ft/lbs torque@6200rpm.

To say that 12ft-lbs of torque is...

The big advantage is GSR has far greater low-end torque.

Is ridiculious. I agree it feels better, but the difference isn't the miles you are making it out to be.

[megotgsr]

i live in utah 4500ft above sea level. stock gsr run a 16.7 with a good launch.

[jcrx]

Originally Posted by megotgsr

i live in utah 4500ft above sea level. stock gsr run a 16.7 with a good launch.

You need to move.

[banditkiller]

Yeah...like tomorrow.....

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by jcrx

To say that 12ft-lbs of torque is...
The big advantage is GSR has far greater low-end torque.
Is ridiculious. I agree it feels better, but the difference isn't the miles you are making it out to be.

You COMPLETLY missed the Point there. LOW-END TORQUE.....The B16A hits PEAK TORQUE @ 7300rpm. The GSR hits PEAK TORQUE at 6200rpm. At 1100rpm's lower to be exact. The PEAK torque difference is 12 ft/lbs, but thats comparing 116 ft/lbs at 7300RPM to 128ft/lbs at 6200RPM. At 6200rpm, the B16A DOES NOT have 116 ft/lbs, it has to rev 1100 rpm's higher to achive 116ft/lbs. At 6200rpm, when the GSR achives peak torque of 128 ft/lbs, the B16A has far less than the GSR's 128 ft/lbs, and much less than its own peak torque of 116ft/lbs as well. Remember, the B16A has to spool up another 1100rpm to achive it's peak torque of 116ft/lbs, which not only comes 1100rpm's higher, making it at the High end, but it also it still less. The GSR has a much more lower end torque, and its total peak torque output is still more than the B16A's, when you compare peak numbers and rpms. When you compare the GSR's peak at 6200 to the B16A's at that RPM, it's a hell of a lot more than 12 ft/lbs. The GSR has much more low end torque, plain and simple. It's much more of a difference than you give it credit for.

[jameskersten]

well incase you people wonder what i have done. i bought the gsr at a wicked price. paid $2200 canadian complete setup including the fuel pump and everything else to make it work. only thing missing was a valve cover, no big deal i got a type r cover right here from a friend, and i only got a p28 ecu for now but will upgrade when i get more cash