Another Iraq cock-up.

[taranaki]

Considering it has been several months since George declared the bulk of the fighting to be over,his troops seem remarkably trigger-happy.

Are they,or has George simply liefd about the state of affairs in the theatre of war?How many G.I's have died since George declared himself the victor?How many Iraqis have been killed by their alleged liberators in the last three months?We hear so little from Iraq in the news reports,it would be easy to assume that the situation is being 'played down'...

Sunday, August 17, 2003 Posted: 2310 GMT

SPECIAL REPORT

BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) -- Reuters cameraman Mazen Dana, an award-winning journalist who had covered some of the world's hottest spots, has been shot dead while filming near a U.S.-run prison on the outskirts of Baghdad.

Eyewitnesses said Dana, 43, was shot by soldiers on an American tank as he filmed outside Abu Ghraib prison in western Baghdad.

His last pictures show a U.S. tank driving towards Dana outside the prison walls. Several shots ring out from the tank, and Dana's camera falls to the ground.

The U.S. military acknowledged on Sunday that its troops had "engaged" a Reuters cameraman, saying they had thought his camera was a rocket propelled grenade launcher.

"Army soldiers engaged an individual they thought was aiming an RPG at them. It turned out to be a Reuters cameraman," navy captain Frank Thorp, a spokesman for the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told Reuters in Washington.

Journalists had gone to the prison after the U.S. military said a mortar bomb attack there a day before had killed six Iraqis and wounded 59 others.

Recounting the moments before the shooting, Reuters soundman Nael al-Shyoukhi, who was working with Dana, said he had asked a U.S. soldier near the prison if they could speak to an officer and was told they could not.

"They saw us and they knew about our identities and our mission," Shyoukhi said. The incident happened in the afternoon in daylight.

The soldier agreed to their request to film an overview of the prison from a bridge nearby.

"After we filmed we went into the car and prepared to go when a convoy led by a tank arrived and Mazen stepped out of the car to film. I followed him and Mazen walked three to four meters (yards). We were noted and seen clearly," Shyoukhi said.

"A soldier on the tank shot at us. I lay on the ground. I heard Mazen and I saw him scream and touching his chest.

"I cried at the soldier, telling him you killed a journalist. They shouted at me and asked me to step back and I said 'I will step back, but please help, please help and stop the bleed'.

"They tried to help him but Mazen bled heavily. Mazen took a last breath and died before my eyes."


Dana's death brings to 17 the number of journalists or their assistants who have died in Iraq since war began on March 20. Two others have been missing since the first days of the war.
Mazen Dana worked for Reuters for 10 years.

[Toksin]

.....................

F.F.S.

[Neutrino]

poor guy.....i feel terible for him.....


all i want to say those are the true reporters not the stuck up news anchors that put all day makeup and make jokes with the weather man.....unfortunatelly its the reporters like this that riks their live to bring us news from the front lines that get shot.....and even worse to be killed by friendly fire its very sad......

[Veyron]

Trigger-happy? Many troops have been killed by the enemy disguised as civilians in many forms. The troops are young, scared and worn out, mistakes are going to be made and many troops themselves have died by freindly fire. Calling it trigger-happy is a real easy call to make from those who are not there.

Reporters are in the war theater under the same pretense as a soldier, they could be killed in a plethora of ways. Many of the reporters were killed because they weren't where they were supposed to be, therefor taking fatal risks. It is unfortunate that the innocent will die, but that's what war is, killing people and breaking things.

[jon@af]

Originally Posted by Veyron

Trigger-happy? Many troops have been killed by the enemy disguised as civilians in many forms. The troops are young, scared and worn out, mistakes are going to be made and many troops themselves have died by freindly fire. Calling it trigger-happy is a real easy call to make from those who are not there.

Reporters are in the war theater under the same pretense as a soldier, they could be killed in a plethora of ways. Many of the reporters were killed because they weren't where they were supposed to be, therefor taking fatal risks. It is unfortunate that the innocent will die, but that's what war is, killing people and breaking things.

what he said.

[zebrathree]

Tough shit. They know the risks and they are, or usually are, told that camera lenses look like rocket sights ie the SA or RP series.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by zebrathree

Tough shit. They know the risks and they are, or usually are, told that camera lenses look like rocket sights ie the SA or RP series.

So...there are enough people waving RPG's around in Iraq to justify killing anyone holding something that looks vaguely like one?In which case,why is the U.S. presenting the situation in Iraq as just being a 'mop up a few diehards and terrorists' scenario?If the war continues unabated in Iraq,the public deserve to know.The Great Liberation is looking less great,and less like liberation with every exchange of fire.

as for this comment....The troops are young, scared and worn out, mistakes are going to be made and many troops themselves have died by freindly fire.

It just proves how unstable the region still is.If the troops have been fired on that many times that they no longer identify their targets,and are 'engaging'[a weasel term for shooting at] anything that they perceive to be a threat,they're not just young and tired,they are gung-ho amateurs.The British Army are putting the U.S. military to shame,they clearly have a much more professional and mature approach to peacekeeping than the 'shock and threaten' tactics used by the American forces.
So far,no WMD's no relief from the killings,and clearly not much Iraqi support for the continued U.S. presence in THEIR country.Bush will go down in history as the man who brought Vietnam back for a second lingering failure.

[Veyron]

they are gung-ho amateurs.The British Army are putting the U.S. military to shame,they clearly have a much more professional and mature approach to peacekeeping than the 'shock and threaten' tactics used by the American forces

You are not even close, we have massive support from the people their who can actually sniff freedom and hunger for it. The media only shows the negative events and attitudes.

As for being "gung-ho", that is also a bogus opinion, that is different from being extremely cautious and untrusting in the heat of war where bullets and bombs are coming from every direction. We have gone out of our way to use precision bombs and to put troops on the ground in harms way in order to protect the innocent in Iraq. We could have done it all from the air in about 6 hours and then gone in and sifted through sand for remains. Nobody can say that we have been "gung ho" and hap-hazardly killing anything that moves, that is a cheap unfounded shot.

[Neutrino]

I'm sorry but I don't think this is a good tread to argue aagain about the war...we have several current threads that cover exactly that.....

I think it would be much more apropriate to show our respect to the war reporters that put their lives on the line to bring us the news....without them we we have no information about what is really happening and without that we coud not even have proper opinions and argue about them

[zebrathree]

Originally Posted by taranaki

So...there are enough people waving RPG's around in Iraq to justify killing anyone holding something that looks vaguely like one?In which case,why is the U.S. presenting the situation in Iraq as just being a 'mop up a few diehards and terrorists' scenario?If the war continues unabated in Iraq,the public deserve to know.The Great Liberation is looking less great,and less like liberation with every exchange of fire.

Yes there probably are quite a few RPGs running around. Arms control wasnt exactly top of Suddams "To Do Today" list.

I think this conflict is starting to develop into a conflict very much like Northern Ireland back in the day. It will take quite awhile to fix this all up.

[zebrathree]

Originally Posted by taranaki

The British Army are putting the U.S. military to shame,they clearly have a much more professional and mature approach to peacekeeping than the 'shock and threaten' tactics used by the American forces.

Sorry, missed this bit the first time.

I would tend to agree. British and Australian soldiers have more of a softly softly approach than the Americanos. I dont know why this is, but its interesting.

[freakray]

Originally Posted by Veyron

As for being "gung-ho", that is also a bogus opinion, that is different from being extremely cautious and untrusting in the heat of war where bullets and bombs are coming from every direction. We have gone out of our way to use precision bombs and to put troops on the ground in harms way in order to protect the innocent in Iraq. We could have done it all from the air in about 6 hours and then gone in and sifted through sand for remains. Nobody can say that we have been "gung ho" and hap-hazardly killing anything that moves, that is a cheap unfounded shot.

Now, who was that guy who said the war in Iraq is over?
If the war is supposedly over, why are they 'in the heat of war'?

[jcrx]

Originally Posted by taranaki

So...there are enough people waving RPG's around in Iraq to justify killing anyone holding something that looks vaguely like one?In which case,why is the U.S. presenting the situation in Iraq as just being a 'mop up a few diehards and terrorists' scenario?If the war continues unabated in Iraq,the public deserve to know.The Great Liberation is looking less great,and less like liberation with every exchange of fire.

as for this comment....The troops are young, scared and worn out, mistakes are going to be made and many troops themselves have died by freindly fire.

It just proves how unstable the region still is.If the troops have been fired on that many times that they no longer identify their targets,and are 'engaging'[a weasel term for shooting at] anything that they perceive to be a threat,they're not just young and tired,they are gung-ho amateurs.The British Army are putting the U.S. military to shame,they clearly have a much more professional and mature approach to peacekeeping than the 'shock and threaten' tactics used by the American forces.
So far,no WMD's no relief from the killings,and clearly not much Iraqi support for the continued U.S. presence in THEIR country.Bush will go down in history as the man who brought Vietnam back for a second lingering failure.

Maybe you need to walk a mile, no, a meter would work, in the shoes of a soldier in combat. It's so easy to throw your ideas and theories around from your armchair watching the news, but till you have experianced war first hand maybe you should shut your fucking mouth.

As for the reporters, first off, they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Yes, the world has a right to know what is going on, but if you walk voluntarily into a combat zone, especially one of the urban, guerilla type like what's going on in Iraq, then that is their descision. I feel for them and there families, but don't blame the soldier who shot him one bit.

[zebrathree]

What the fuck do you Germans know about war? You lost TWO wars in 20 years!

[jcrx]

Originally Posted by zebrathree

What the fuck do you Germans know about war? You lost TWO wars in 20 years!

Holy Shit, ignorance has raised its ugly head!!!! First off Mr. Cumdumpster, I am an American soldier stationed in Germany, second, the Germany army is not one that you would want to fuck with, it's their leaders that suck. And just as I volunteered to go into harms way, so did the reporters that get killed. Feel sorry for them, but damn, you play with fire and guess what? You get burned.