Grant Aldonas can go jump

[taranaki]

Continued pressure on New Zealand by the United States over its ban on nuclear-propelled warships shows the ban is still relevant and important, Greenpeace said today.

Top-ranking US Government official , who is Under-Secretary of Commerce (International Trade), yesterday said the nuclear issue was an "artefact of another age" and said the US needed the freedom of our waters to fight terrorism.

He said the ban arose out of cold war concerns that were no longer a focus.

However, Greenpeace spokeswoman Bunny McDiarmid said today the ban was more important than ever.

"New Zealand's ban is more relevant today that it was in 1986 when it came into being."

She said the US had developed more small, "more usable" nuclear weapons.

"It makes the whole issue of nuclear arms even more dangerous today than it was in 1986 despite the cold war having gone away."

Mr Aldonas said New Zealand's anti-nuclear ban did not appear to have had a "cascading effect" elsewhere, but said that was no longer the issue, "given that what we now confront is a war on terror, not a cold war".

Ms McDiarmid said there was more to the issue than simply a ban on nuclear powered or armed ships.

"It's also a statement about New Zealand sees the whole issue of disarmament... To the United States that's a real challenge. I think they are worried that other countries would also see that as a relevant and serious commitment to disarmament and that's why the keep challenging it.

"If they really think it's had no effect why do they continue to keep challenging it?"

Ms McDiarmid said the argument that US ships needed free access to New Zealand waters to fight terrorism did not stand up.

"To say that they want to come into our harbours with their nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed ships because they are interested in extending their fight on terrorism I think is patently ridiculous.

Prime Minister Helen Clark's spokesman, David Lewis, yesterday said the US administration and the New Zealand Government's views on the nuclear issue were well-known.

"We know that the US regards it as unfinished business but New Zealand has no plans to change its current policy."

Mr Aldonas met Trade Negotiations Minister Jim Sutton in Wellington recently to plan a joint strategy for the World Trade Organisation meeting in Cancun, Mexico.

A potential free trade deal with the US has in the past been used as a reason to get rid of the ban, but Ms McDiarmid said it was not justified.

"Nuclear weapons and nuclear power have not become safe overnight because we want a free trade deal... there's no guarantee we'd even get a trade deal with the US anyway."

[V-8Fan]

Perhaps the Americans should just let the Red Chinese take New Zealand when they make their move towards dominating the western Pacific (and the day WILL come). Do you think China gives a f*** what New Zealand thinks about their nukes?

I'll swear, some people flush their brains down the shitter and walk around grinning and unaware all day. The days of Western Civilization in places like New Zealand must truly be numbered---and dwindling rapidly.

[taranaki]

If you are just going to talk shite,don't bother posting.It's patently obvious that you know fuck all about your subject.Nobody in the U.S.administration is stupid enough to suggest a Chinese threat to New Zealand,they're trying to crawl back in under the discredited banner of "The War O n Terror".Apparently,Their strategy for controlling Al -Quaeda will not work until they've got their sticky beaks in evey corner of the globe.

I would arue that we don't want your warships here,because they pose more of a security risk than a security assurance.Remember the U.S.S Cole?I for one don't want terrorist targets moored in our ports.Terrorism is unheard of in this country.LET'S KEEP IT THAT WAY THANKS,THERE IS NO REASON WHATSOEVER FOR THE LAW TO BE OVERTURNED.

[Veyron]

I can understand the apprehension of ships close by, although the USA would be one of the first calls made by New Zealand if military support was needed. It seems to me that no matter what Ms McDiarmid thinks, we are much more than just a "sticky beak" in that as of 2002 America was new Zealand's second highest importer/exporter. That may be enough leverage to sway the ban, and who really cares what Greenpeace thinks.

[Toksin]

Originally posted by V-8Fan
Perhaps the Americans should just let the Red Chinese take New Zealand when they make their move towards dominating the western Pacific (and the day WILL come). Do you think China gives a f*** what New Zealand thinks about their nukes?

I'll swear, some people flush their brains down the shitter and walk around grinning and unaware all day.

Like people who post things like that. As was said, if you're going to post shit, don't come here.

Like Naki said as well, we dont' WANT TERRORIST TARGETS IN OUR PORTS. New Zealand has been happily exempt from all the other shit happening around the world, we don't want attacks brought here. It would be EXTREMELY easy to pull off an attack on a US warship moored in say Wellington harbour.

A Chinese threat to New Zealand? Bah, haha, haha, hah.
They'll go for Indonesia and Australia first if anything, there's fuck all here. No resources, very little space. That doesn't even deserve more of an argument than this.

Granted, I'd love to have a walk on board a US destroyer or carrier and see what it's like, but still. I agree nuclear weapons and powerplants are safe, but I'm proud of NZ for sticking up for its beliefs, when most other countries around the world seem quite content with sucking American dick.

[V-8Fan]

Originally posted by taranaki
If you are just going to talk shite,don't bother posting.It's patently obvious that you know fuck all about your subject.Nobody in the U.S.administration is stupid enough to suggest a Chinese threat to New Zealand,they're trying to crawl back in under the discredited banner of "The War O n Terror".Apparently,Their strategy for controlling Al -Quaeda will not work until they've got their sticky beaks in evey corner of the globe.

I would arue that we don't want your warships here,because they pose more of a security risk than a security assurance.Remember the U.S.S Cole?I for one don't want terrorist targets moored in our ports.Terrorism is unheard of in this country.LET'S KEEP IT THAT WAY THANKS,THERE IS NO REASON WHATSOEVER FOR THE LAW TO BE OVERTURNED.

I take it, then, that you don't believe the Red Chinese pose a threat to the Pacific Basin? What rock have you been living under? I've never heard anything so naiive as that leftist CRAP. Even though the Administration may not vocalize the existence of the Chinese threat, believe me, they know. Do you think the Chinese are pouring their resources into industrial capacity and military capabilities so they can have goddam parades and build television sets?? Have you forgotten that they are communists, and have you forgotten what communists believe about world politics? Or do you think they are just JOKING?????

It's quite obvious that YOU know FUCK about geopolitics.

My entire point is that very often, countries want to trade with the U.S., they want treaties, they want aid, they want this, they want that, but when the U.S. wants something, it's "oh hell no!" And when some country who professes to be an ally gets their ass in a crack, we come and save them. Look at France, what the hell kind of an ally are they? With friends like that, who needs enemies?? So, that's why I say we should not go around pulling other countries asses out of the fire all the time.

[V-8Fan]

Originally posted by Toksin


Like people who post things like that. As was said, if you're going to post shit, don't come here.

You may request that I not come to NZ. Fine. But I'll post my opinions regardless of your approval.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by V-8Fan


I take it, then, that you don't believe the Red Chinese pose a threat to the Pacific Basin? What rock have you been living under? I've never heard anything so naiive as that leftist CRAP. Even though the Administration may not vocalize the existence of the Chinese threat, believe me, they know. Do you think the Chinese are pouring their resources into industrial capacity and military capabilities so they can have goddam parades and build television sets?? Have you forgotten that they are communists, and have you forgotten what communists believe about world politics? Or do you think they are just JOKING?????

It's quite obvious that YOU know FUCK about geopolitics.

My entire point is that very often, countries want to trade with the U.S., they want treaties, they want aid, they want this, they want that, but when the U.S. wants something, it's "oh hell no!" And when some country who professes to be an ally gets their ass in a crack, we come and save them. Look at France, what the hell kind of an ally are they? With friends like that, who needs enemies?? So, that's why I say we should not go around pulling other countries asses out of the fire all the time.

1/ MODERATE YOUR MANNERS IN THIS FORUM.See the 'sticky' thread at the top of the page.

2/If you want to debate,debate.Don't just scream your bigotry,it's not a contest,the most obnoxious poster does not win the argument.

3/In respect of the points that you raise -

The U.S. actively blocks foreign imports for the sake of re-election chances.If there is a single food product that is grown or raised in the U.S. that can't be made just as well,but at a fraction of the cost,overseas - I'd be very surprised.Your government is happy to protect you from lower prices and better quailty goods in order to prevent unemployment,and the subsequent change of government.

As for your comments about allies...why the hell would we want to fight your wars for you?Looking back at recent history,we helped in Vietnam[what a cock-up],we helped in Korea,We helped in Bosnia,We helped in Afghanistan,we're patrolling in the Gulf,We're on our way to help the Iraqis back onto their feet again[we'll be taking rifles with us,but we won't be shoving them in the Iraqis' faces,we are not there to fight]...

Yet because we choose to have an opinion of our own,the U.S. government kicks us out of ANZUS,and throws in tarriffs to block our agricultural exports. Thanks guys.




Finally,on the Chinese - I think we are more at risk of being invaded by the US.When did the Chinese make unfounded accusations about weapons of mass destruction and take over a country?

[Toksin]

Fear the commies! The commies are coming! The commies are coming! Evil red bastards!!

This ain't the sixties no more man.

Explain me this: If China is such a threat, why did the US waste manpower and equipment on Afghanistan, Iraq and now Liberia?

[Veyron]

Explain me this: If China is such a threat, why did the US waste manpower and equipment on Afghanistan, Iraq and now Liberia?

As far as we know China wasn't connected to the group(s) that attacked on 9/11. Who knows why we're in Libiria, it looks like that's fizzling out anyway.

[V-8Fan]

Originally posted by taranaki



Finally,on the Chinese - I think we are more at risk of being invaded by the US.When did the Chinese make unfounded accusations about weapons of mass destruction and take over a country?

The entire post is horseshit, but this last part takes the cake...the old-keep-telling-the-lies-until-everyone-is-so-numb-they-believe-it trick. Thou spewest feces most indiscriminately. Do you have personal knowledge that there positively are no WMD buried or otherwise hidden in Iraq? I thought not.

You shoot more shit than the old-time Soviet propaganda radio station. All you seem to do is regurgitate the bullshit and lies you hear on whatever leftist broadcast outlet you happen to frequent. You don't know a goddam thing about the elections in Florida and you know even less about what has gone on in Iraq. America IS the greatest country in the world, and I think people like you are insanely jealous and are afraid your penises aren't big enough.

Scotty, beam me up. There's no intelligent life down here.

[V-8Fan]

Originally posted by Toksin
Fear the commies! The commies are coming! The commies are coming! Evil red bastards!!

This ain't the sixties no more man.

Explain me this: If China is such a threat, why did the US waste manpower and equipment on Afghanistan, Iraq and now Liberia?

I'd sooner explain anything to a fencepost so that I wouldn't feel like I was wasting my time. As in "pearls before swine."

[Toksin]

Stick to the topic instead of flaming people, or you will be banned.

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Finally,on the Chinese - I think we are more at risk of being invaded by the US.When did the Chinese make unfounded accusations about weapons of mass destruction and take over a country?

Perhaps we should review Tibet and Taiwan issues before exonerating China of issues such as these. Other then that, China should be out of the equation for the most part.

[Toksin]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Perhaps we should review Tibet and Taiwan issues before exonerating China of issues such as these. Other then that, China should be out of the equation for the most part.

D'oh! Good point Dave, forgot about Tibet and Taiwan...still,there were no claims of WMD...They see Taiwan as a rebel province and I can't actually remember what the story is with Tibet ...but this is going to drag this thread way off topic again.

I still say go NZ