BMW M3 -OR- Audi S4

[XeonSSJ]

I am in a bit of a toss up between these two beasts.

--2003--
BMW M3 or Audi S4

I have read reviews concerning their speed, but not much on their handling. I know audi offers superior traction control and with their quattro system, the s4 is extremely Safe in any weather condition. I am wondering if the M3 has any type of systems to match the S4 and how they compare. Any advice between these two cars is well appreciated!

[crayzayjay]

The S4’s not going to get your heart racing like an M3 will. An S4 will be quicker and safer in the wet but the M3 is more fun to drive in all weather conditions and has the edge in terms of handling, by some margin too. It will also be as easy to drive to the supermarket as a tame 316i. IMO the M3 is also the looker of the two. If you want safe, elegant, effortless speed, go for the S4. If you consider yourself a car nut, it has to be the M3 for its explosive pace and thrills.

[buymeabmwm3]

M3. No other car on the road offers you the same amount of feedback as this car. Feels like you are directly connected to the road. After driving a few M3's, my initial impressions are that the car is so completely different in feel than any other car that its a little overwhelming just how much feedback the car gives you. No other car feels the same. I've driven cars that were faster, or had similar performance numbers, but when it all comes down to it, they're just numbers. You really have to get in and drive a car before deciding if you like it or not.

[SuBaRuRuLeS]

Both are so nice,
S4 looks much better to me, but you gotta go for the M3 since it's a real performance car.

How about an RS4, now we're talking

[crayzayjay]

RS4 has good power but is even softer and more underwhelming than the S4

[Menu dei Motori]

rs4 my friend has a modded rs4 (the friend with the moded turbo )
he´s hunting his turbo with it...



ok but we´re talking about s4 or m3

if you want a save sporty luxury very powerfull save car go for the s4
if you have style, want to ride a very sporty luxury very powerfull car go for the m3.

the m3 is a driving machine it makes so much fun to ride it around corners when the back comes to your side mirror.

[XeonSSJ]

Okay, i am thinking the M3... However does anybody know what kind of anti-slip or stability features the M3 has. Also, i have heard about a launch feature, whats that about? Thanks for the help guys!

[Menu dei Motori]

i don´t know how all these stability programs are called in america


the m3 has a 100% limitied slip differential (of couse nor in corners )
he has DSC(ESP)
and LC= launch control. (i cnanot exactly explain you how this works. but the warrenty of the clutch expires if you use it more than 10 times or so says bmw.

i think for the lc you have to switsch the DSC off press lc button, kick down, now engine speed levels off at around 4000 rpm and if you let go the lc button you start like an f1 car

[XeonSSJ]

WoW!!!

That would be very nice to have if you are at a random stoplight and feel the need, lol. Interesting features, do you by any chance know a site that would explain more about the features of the M3 (US version).
Thanks!

[Chippy99]

Saw this thread and felt compelled to add some balance. (Long)

I have wanted an M3 ever since the latest model came out, but have never been able to afford one until now. But here in the UK the S4 has been getting some rave reviews so I thought I had better try both cars before shelling out circa $66,000 on an M3.

I tested the S4 first. The first thing that struck me was the build quality. It simply oozes quality. The way the doors "clunk" shut, the interior materials, the switches etc. Its first class. Then I start up the engine. What a fantastic piece of engineering that is. At any speed from idle to 7,200 rpm it sounds completely awesome. Keeping it brief, the driving experience is just unbelievable. The torque from that 4.2 V8 is absolutely incredible; it pulls like a steam train up a steep hill in 5th at 30mph, yet its equally happy revving away at 6 ~ 7,000. The cornering on this car has to be experienced to be believed. I am not a car reviewer, so words fail me, but I defy *anyone* to drive this car and not love it.

Then onto the BMW. I was sure the beemer would be better. Yes the M3 is a looker alright, and with the 19" polished rims and red leather, this one was just *beautiful*. But right from opening the door, I could tell the M3 just wasn't that "special". I have owned 3 beemers before (a 318is, a 328 coupe and most recently a 540). The M3 was just more of the same. The doors are solid enough, but nothing like the Audi. Likewise, the inside - its just OK. Really nothing to write home about. The engine sounds OK enough too. But it really doesn't set your heart racing like the Audi does. Driving the M3 really is very different from driving the Audi, and yes I can see why some people might think its better. You do feel more "connected" to the road - simply because the M3 feels so much less sophisticated. So much more raw. Its more basic; more Lotus Elise-like. The trouble is, it just doesn't "go" as well as the Audi. Put your foot down in third or fourth at (say) 2,000 rpm and there's really nothing happening. Sure if you like to drive in the 5,000 rpm power band all the time then yes, its quick. But it needs to be revved hard to get it going.

And the handling on the M3 just can't touch the S4. Coming back on the test drive even at "moderate" speed, I could feel the back-end trying to step out into the ditch and the electronics cutting in to keep me on track. Switching the ASR etc off in this would put the average driver in the fields in about 5 minutes! The AUDI just isn't like that; its like its on rails!

Frankly I couldn't believe how disappointing the M3 was in comparison. Sure, compared to a regular 330 Coupe, or an Audi A4, then the M3 would have seemed fabulous. But not compared to the S4.

I was so amazed, I decided to take the S4 for another spin. Perhaps my imagination had got the better of me and the S4 was really going to be a disappointment after the M3. I really really really wanted an M3. I have always wanted an M3. But as soon as I drove off in the S4, I could tell the Audi was the car for me. Its just miles better. Its faster (don't believe the stats. The AUDI will do 0-60 in around 5.0 and it feels faster too.) It handles better. In the dry it beats the M3, in the wet there's no comparison. Its better built, by a mile. And its cheaper (although not by much!) and its safer too.

So I bought the S4 :-) $62,628 of my hard earning cash :-( And I pick it up tomorrow :-) Hence me reading this thread and posting here.

The M3 has a loyal following and its by no means a bad car. But I wonder how many passionate M3 owners have actually driven the new S4. Its in a different league.

Just my "2 cents"

Chip.

[crayzayjay]

Hi Chip,

I appreciate your review, but I think your choice of car simply came down to what you’re really looking for, which basically is not a sports car.

You say that the S4 has superior handling in that the M3’s back-end wants to step out whereas the S4 is “on rails”. Of course the M3’s looser, 343bhp at the rear wheels will always want to step out, and the S4’s 4 wheel drive. Does this mean it handles better? You’re not differentiating between grip and handling, which are entirely different things. Once the S4 loses grip, which is likely to be at high speed, id like to see you bring it back. It’ll understeer like mad. That’s a basic fact. It’s simply not a sports car, like the pure, rwd M3. No criticism, the (also heavier) S4 simply wasn’t built for that. If someone says that an S4 is miles better than an M3, I cant help thinking that his/her priorities lean heavily towards those embodied by one of two cars he/she thought were equally suited to him/her. When you say the M3’s race bred, universally acclaimed engine doesn’t set your heart racing, 1) I die from shock, and 2) it clear that your priorities lie with a rather “lazily fast” car, one that isn’t on the edge, but easier to drive fast, more comfortable, and less dangerous to live with. Which is basically what the torquey S4 sets out to do. As for stats, Audi were so concerned with these that they tuned the power output to 344bhp, i.e. 1bhp more than the M3. A silly game to play, really, but then if they’re so concerned with the numbers game im sure they wouldn’t understate theirs to look inferior to the M3’s. So I do believe the stats. Besides, tests have shown that the M3 is faster in a straight line sprint.

I hope you don’t see this as me criticising your choice of car, far from it, the S4 is excellent, but if you think the M3’s “isn’t special” or the S4 “miles better”, then your priorities must lie firmly elsewhere. To say that the S4 is “in a different league”, well, here’s how I see it. It might have the edge in comfort, though I cant agree its interior is that much more special than the M3’s, they’re on a par to me, typical, unspectacular German interiors of high quality, admittedly the Audi’s shades it in quality. But when it comes to performance and the thrill of driving, the M3 is certainly a league above. The S4 simply wasn’t made for that purpose, just as the M3 was made to be an entertaining RWD sports car that can fight a 911. That, and the fact it can do the trip to the supermarket with no hassle puts it firmly on top for me.

My own 2 cents, and welcome to AF

The M3 (e46 Eurospec) has 343 hp I believe and a 0-60 in 4.8 I believe the v8 S4 to be well over 5 seconds on the sprint.

the M3 is also far more responsive and definitely infinitely more fun to drive.

But I'd take my GT3 any day

Note: The S4 is not a sports car, it doesn't take the corners as well, accellerate nearly as well and recover at all, and I've driven an e46 with the DSC and TCS off and I managed to drift the thing quite nicely while the Audi we tested just seemed to spin and slide sideways... so as far as true performance goes the M3 dominates in all aspects but creature comforts, which is what Audi is known for its interior.

[Chippy99]

Now you see where this mis-information is everywhere.

According to BMW, the M3 does 0-60 in 5.2, not 4.8 I accept that yes, it might in reality be faster than 5.2. But Audi quote their time as 5.6 and in reality, it *is* faster than 5.6 Motortrend.com benched the S4 at 4.9

But none of this matters really. The fact is the Audi is faster in all "normal" circumstances. Put your foot down in an M3 at 1,500 rpm and nothing happens. Contrast the Audi: do the same and its off like a rocket. The beemer just needs to be driven so much harder to get it to go fast.

Then there's the handling. Most people would think that the Audi might beat the M3 in the wet, right? But not the dry? Well BBC's "Top Gear" - the UK's highest-rated car programme tested the M3 vs the S4 on the track in test conditions. In the dry. And guess what, the Audi is *faster* on the track than the M3. So all this stuff about "the M3 handles better" is just pure myth.

Cheers,

Chip.

5.2-5.3 is for the North American model (which has 10 hp less than the Eurospec, which is the one I specifically mentioned). And "Top Gear" is not their number one mag'... ever hear of "Car" Magazine.

Also, there is a production model of the M3 that is significantly faster, M3 GTR... which dusts the S4 in any situation...

[Chippy99]

Originally Posted by Noah Drabinsky

5.2-5.3 is for the North American model (which has 10 hp less than the Eurospec, which is the one I specifically mentioned). And "Top Gear" is not their number one mag'... ever hear of "Car" Magazine.

Also, there is a production model of the M3 that is significantly faster, M3 GTR... which dusts the S4 in any situation...

BMW gmbh and BMW UK both quote 5.2 as the 0-60 time.

Yes, I have heard of "Car" mag. Presumably they have something good to say about the M3?

I know about the M3 GTR; more money for less car.... well less weight anyway. But frankly this is a bit irrelevant to me. If you want a bare bones go kart, then but a Lotus Elise. Its faster and better handling than an M3 or an S4 and about half the price.

The S4 would be even quicker if I take the seats out ;-)

The issue we are debating is that both the M3 and the S4 are genuinely every-day useable cars and which one is faster/better. I say the S4 is faster. Others may disagree. But either way its close. Very close. Anyone saying the M3 is way faster are just plain wrong. It just isn't.

Chip.