fuel qustions!?!?!?!?!??!

turbo2nr · #1 08-01-2003, 10:50 AM

ok so i was looking up info on dsmtuners.com and i was lookin at the parts list.
so hears what i get.. please correct me

the apex-i s-avc-r is only a boost controller and the s-afc is the piggyback a\f controller right? if so does any company sell a boost controller\a\f controller in one? i know that stand alone fuel managment sys do that but those are alot of $.

also the 2g's dsm tunnig guide says that with the stage 1 mods you will only get low 13's to high 12's form those mods? is that true?

it seems that the stage 1 mods seem good enought ot get into the mid-12's?

damm it i sound like a newbie again! but i just want to know all i can about dsm!

1

MB38 · #2 08-01-2003, 11:55 AM

I don't believe that there are any combo AFC/BCs out there without spending the cash on a stand-alone system. It's worth buying A'PEXi's AFC and GReddy's PRofec B. They're pretty much considered the "best" bang for the buck in their respective applications.

RockinWRX · #3 08-01-2003, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MB38
I don't believe that there are any combo AFC/BCs out there without spending the cash on a stand-alone system. It's worth buying A'PEXi's AFC and GReddy's PRofec B. They're pretty much considered the "best" bang for the buck in their respective applications.

S-AFC and Profec-B...........

Talon007 · #4 08-01-2003, 02:09 PM

SAFC and a cheap MBC is good enough

MB38 · #5 08-01-2003, 02:54 PM

Of course, but with a manual boost controller, you NEED a boost gauge. It's safe to assume you'd get a boost gauge anyways, but a GReddy PRofec B Spec II has a built in boost readout. Not as precise as a gauge, but technically you could use a Spec II with no gauge.

Not that I recommend it.

turbo2nr · #6 08-01-2003, 04:04 PM

no a boost gauge is a must may be a first mod after intake and exhaust..

btw thanks

1

MB38 · #7 08-01-2003, 04:13 PM

If I were you, the first thing I would do would be the free mods, an upper IC pipe and a new BOV. Shortly thereafter, do a *full* intake (filter-turbo), cat-back exhaust, and add a little filter (you don't need GReddy's catch can) to keep the oil out of the intake. Then add boost control and a gauge. You *should* be safe without a boost gauge until that point. Adding an intake/exhaust/IC pipe/BOV with the BCS restrictor removal should keep your boost at safe levels.

turbo2nr · #8 08-01-2003, 04:22 PM

yea the free mods is gona happen as soon as i get the car in my drive way..

then followed by everythin else..

1

Talon007 · #9 08-02-2003, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MB38
If I were you, the first thing I would do would be the free mods, an upper IC pipe and a new BOV. Shortly thereafter, do a *full* intake (filter-turbo), cat-back exhaust, and add a little filter (you don't need GReddy's catch can) to keep the oil out of the intake. Then add boost control and a gauge. You *should* be safe without a boost gauge until that point. Adding an intake/exhaust/IC pipe/BOV with the BCS restrictor removal should keep your boost at safe levels.

Dont bother with a UICP or BOV yet, no need. No real need for a BOV until you have a GM 3" blow-thru set up. A valve cover breather filter and a boost guage were my first mods (excluding the rebuilt engine with removed balance shafts). Get a boost guage before removing the BCS. A logger should be near the top of your list too.

RockinWRX · #10 08-03-2003, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Talon007

Dont bother with a UICP or BOV yet, no need. No real need for a BOV until you have a GM 3" blow-thru set up. A valve cover breather filter and a boost guage were my first mods (excluding the rebuilt engine with removed balance shafts). Get a boost guage before removing the BCS. A logger should be near the top of your list too.

No real need for a BOV at all unless you like the PSSSSTCHEW noise. Crush a stock 1G one. The upper IC pipe is a marketing gimic only , I've seen guys in the 12's with the stock one still in place. A Boost guage is an absolute necessity. An MBC should be on your list also. Loggers are cool , but only if you are haveing driveability problems you can't diagnose with brainpower , or you get past 300 Hp.
But your mods definitely should go like :
#1 all the "free" mods
#2 Boost guage
#3 MBC or Profec-B ( 15 psi max on stock fuel pump)
#4 BS removal (trust us on this)
#5 Catback exhaust
#6 Fuel pump (once you plan to go past 15 psi boost)
#7 Downpipe
#8 7cm exhaust housing (you'll be getting boost creep issues by then)
#9 Cat replacement (straight pipe or 3")
#10 660 injector swap
#11 Bigger IC (the stock one is good for 12's , replace it sooner if you like to auto-cross)
At least this is how I would do my car. Every car is a touch different.

kjewer1 · #11 08-03-2003, 05:31 AM

You should run a logger as soon as you start raising boost. There is no other way to see what boost level is safe besides knock. There is also no point in having an AFC or other fuel controller if you dont have a logger. You cant adjust it without seeing fuel trims and knock/timing. Also if the car is a 2g, get the BOV long before messing arond with things like the MAF, but stick to recirculating style like the 1g BOV (40 bucks). The stock MAS is good for mid 11s. Also the 2g stock UICP will actually limit airflow to the point that boost will fall off with bigger turbos like 20g. Replace that POS early on.

Here is my modding process for my particular car, with times.

BR full turbo back (no point in doing a catback, the muffler is the least of your exhaust worries), got me to 14.6

KN filter. 14.3s (some of htat was jsut from more seat time)

UICP, 1g BOV, 2600, logger, Profec B. 14.2. Why? Limit of the T25 on pump gas with no fuel control in my case at least. Put in race gas and ran mid 13s.

Used 14b, AFC, TMO chip. Ran 12.7 at 106. Put in a pump jsut to be safe.

If I had to do it all agan I would do the same, but I would do DSMlink instaed of the logger/AFC/TMO. It replaces all of those devices and then some.

For a 1g its slightly different. Get a full turbo back, pump, MAFT (liit of the 1g mas is much worse than 2g), filter, and MBC and run 12s all day. Much easier

IMO, IME, YMMV, etc

RockinWRX · #12 08-03-2003, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
You should run a logger as soon as you start raising boost. There is no other way to see what boost level is safe besides knock. There is also no point in having an AFC or other fuel controller if you dont have a logger. You cant adjust it without seeing fuel trims and knock/timing. Also if the car is a 2g, get the BOV long before messing arond with things like the MAF, but stick to recirculating style like the 1g BOV (40 bucks). The stock MAS is good for mid 11s. Also the 2g stock UICP will actually limit airflow to the point that boost will fall off with bigger turbos like 20g. Replace that POS early on.

Here is my modding process for my particular car, with times.

BR full turbo back (no point in doing a catback, the muffler is the least of your exhaust worries), got me to 14.6

KN filter. 14.3s (some of htat was jsut from more seat time)

UICP, 1g BOV, 2600, logger, Profec B. 14.2. Why? Limit of the T25 on pump gas with no fuel control in my case at least. Put in race gas and ran mid 13s.

Used 14b, AFC, TMO chip. Ran 12.7 at 106. Put in a pump jsut to be safe.

If I had to do it all agan I would do the same, but I would do DSMlink instaed of the logger/AFC/TMO. It replaces all of those devices and then some. For a 1g its slightly different. Get a full turbo back, pump, MAFT (liit of the 1g mas is much worse than 2g), filter, and MBC and run 12s all day. Much easier IMO, IME, YMMV, etc

I never had a logger on my Eclipse. But next trip around the block I think I'd at least get a S-AFC 2 , with the knock readout . Next best thing , IMO. Although , in my experience , any knock bad enough to damage the motor can be heard inside the car. I heard it on my Eclipse , and thought it was plug wire arc. No such luck. That little knowledge deficit cost me the #2 piston and consequently a full rebuild.

kjewer1 · #13 08-03-2003, 06:09 AM

I find it cmpletely impossible to hear myself think in my car, let alone hear knock

You want to stop knock long before it becomes audible. Butthat also depends on how close to the edge you are (mostly airflow) The knock readout on the SAFC2 doesnt work on our cars

Its a very complicated system... Hence the reason no 2G logger could read knock until DSMlink cracked the code.

RockinWRX · #14 08-03-2003, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 95 GSXracer
I find it cmpletely impossible to hear myself think in my car, let alone hear knock You want to stop knock long before it becomes audible. Butthat also depends on how close to the edge you are (mostly airflow) The knock readout on the SAFC2 doesnt work on our cars Its a very complicated system... Hence the reason no 2G logger could read knock until DSMlink cracked the code.

Doesn't work on the 1G? Or the 2G. I can see the OBD-2 ECU on the 2G giving the S-AFC fits , which is prolly why I've never seen a 2G with one....

The S-AFC-1 worked good in my 1G , so I'm assuming the 2 would also.........

kjewer1 · #15 08-03-2003, 08:06 AM

Everything should still work the same as far as fuel control goes. Its just the knock sensor part that supposedly doesnt work with DSMs... The SAFC still has some other nice features too though...

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