Engine Upgrade For my Civi

[GuitarManiac101]

I just got a 98 Honda Civic LX and I want to sink a new engine in it. I was wondering if it would be better to buy a block and build a new engine or to buy an engine already put together. If you would recomend buying a new engine, where is a place I could get one and what name would you choose. If you recomend building an engine, what are parts you would use and where could I get them. Any information about engine performace would be very helpful. Thanks a bunch.
Bryn

[Racing Rice]

just buy a whole motor.. its not worth just getting the block unless you have the other parts laying around some where. There are tons of shops online that sell JDM and USDM motors. Just do a search for things like "B16 complete changeover" or "honda motors" or whatever youll find plenty to keep you busy for a while.

[GuitarManiac101]

What would you recomend to look for in size of the engine and everything? I plan to build the engine to take 20 pounds of boost.

[Swonder67]

20 pounds of boost is alot. with that much power, your pistions might just shoot out the top of the hood. haha.

[JD@af]

Built properly, you will have no trouble holding your 20 pounds of boost. I am wary of anything bearing the JG name, but apparently their crate engines are top notch (according to a very knowledgeable source) and are ready to take on 30 psi of boost right out of the box. That might be a good start. Otherwise, I'd recommend getting an engine and resleeving it with Golden Eagle sleeves. These are warrentied up to 60 psi of boost (at least for the B16A they are). A good source for JDM engines is this number: 1-800-338-soko (7656). Ask for Keiko.

What kind of engine are you looking to get? B16A (Civic Si/Civic Del Sol VTEC), B18C1 (Integra GS-R), B18C5 (Integra Type R), H22A (Prelude), or combination engine (one of the sweetest combos is a B20 block with B17A crankshaft and either a B16 or B18 head - although it is a pricey one)? Ask more questions is you need. I just built a boost-worthy motor myself, so I've already traveled many of these roads.

[GuitarManiac101]

What are the prices of those engines and which one would you recomend? Also, what kind of turbo charger would you recomend?

[Swonder67]

The price of the engines can really depend on thier condition. they can range anywhere from 1500-3500. If you want tranny, ECU, etc, it'll go for more in the higher range. I like HKS turbos. HKS is a big company, and they are reliable. However, since the company is based overseas, turbo kits would be extremely expensive. I also like Greddy turbos. Just as reliable, but alittle cheaper.

[GuitarManiac101]

How much are the Geddy turbo chargers and are they capable of putting 60 pounds of boost into an engine. Also, where could I find a dealer for the Geddy turbo's. How much more expensive are the HKM turbo's? Also, does the cost stay about the same among sizes of turbo's or does it drastically change? Also, can you put an Integra engine or any of the other's into a civic? Are they interchangable. Would I have to get a new transmission? Thanks for all the input, this is soo helpful.

[JD@af]

The engines are mostly interchangeable. Some combinations will work with no problem, some will require a custom mounting kit to make the conversion. I've got a spreadsheet (too much work to post it) listing some combinations and their relative compatibility. Greddy turbo chargers are I believe just about the only street legal turbo system available, but I think that is really only an enforced in California, so in Texas that should not be a concern. I think as long as you pass emissions, you are all set. I certainly know of street legal cars in CT that pass emissions with turbos other than Greddy.

As for the transmissions, stock Honda trannies are remarkably stout. You might blow a transmission every so often, but in general they are very capable of taking the tremendous torque levels generated by turbocharging. And you can get engines much, much cheaper than that. Well under a thousand, which is what I recommend doing. Get yourself a high mileage motor, as for serious boost levels you will be replacing the pistons, connecting rods, and cylinder bores via resleeving. With the exception of the crankshaft and bearings, this essentially will give you a new engine.

I would not mess with smaller turbo systems like the Greddy since you seem to be serious about serious boost levels. You will want to check into larger caliber turbo systems like those available from Rev Hard, Turbonetics, and giants like HKS. You should look into spending say $3,000 to $4,000 for all your turbo system parts (not including labor), as you will need the turbo itself, waste gate, blow off valve, turbo timer, boost controller, intercooler, turbo exhaust manifold, and plumbing to connect all the necessary components. For serious boost levels like you want to run, I’d get a high flow intake manifold as well, like those made by STR (these run about $1,000!).

As for 60 pounds, I can say confidently that you are not going to want to run that much boost. There are turbos out there capable of putting out that much boost, and engines equipped to take it, but that is some serious power. For contrast sake, Ed Bergenholtz, who has one of the fastest Hondas in the world, was only using 26 pounds of boost when he was running approximately 9.8-second quarter mile passes (that’s 720 horsepower!). You are not going to want to get anywhere near the 60 pound level.

I don’t know all the details on turbos, since I have a supercharger and have not traveled all the avenues of researching turbo systems. I know a guy that can get all the turbo stuff you need, but there are a lot of avenues to travel for getting your system set up, probably places closer to you in Texas. Let me know if you want the 411 on my contact, however. I hope this helps to answer more of your questions.

[Racing Rice]

The best motor to put 20 lbs of boost through I would have to say is a B18B, non VTEC, integra LS motor. You can pick them up pretty cheap and they are the best motor to handle a ton of boost. I have a friend from another honda site that pushed 30 lbs through is B18B to see if it would take it and it did. (Granted he didnt drive it daily like that, it was a on shot thing, hes getting ready to rebuild it again and wanted to see how strong it was.) The only thing that happend when he did this was he blew the electrodes off his 99c autolite sparkplugs. Theres your proof that the engine can handle huge amounts of boost, and yes the motor already has a block guard and JG pistons and eagle rods and some other stuff done to. He is running a DRAG turbo kit. I agree dont run a Greddy kit if you want to push 20 lbs. I dont think youll ever find a turbo/motor combo in a civic thatll hold 60lbs of boost.. I wouldnt even think in those realms.. if you can hold 30lbs youll be the top dog. You will probably want to go with a T3/T4 turbo. Revhard, DRAG, FMAX are very good kits. Even the Greddy Integra kits are only 18G Turbos so you probably wont get anymore then about 18lbs of boost out of them.

If your going turbo.. I say go B18B.. It fairly cheap since its non VTEC and nobody want them really.. Everyone wants the B18C. you can pick the whole change over up for about 2000-2500..

[GuitarManiac101]

What do the high level intakes do that the regular ones don't? Do you have any site's you'd recomend looking at for this stuff and do you have any sites that you buy from? This is so helpful thank you guys so much.

[JD@af]

The high flow intake I recommended really doesn't yield any power except with a turbo running high boost levels. It just allows more air into the cylinder head. It's a pretty simply concept, really.

Hey, heads up for a private message from me

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention that Racing Rice's advice about the B18B non-VTEC engine is a good call. Remember that when you get a certain boost level with any form of forced induction, you will want to disable VTEC as it actually will cause your motor to lose power. This is a fairly torquey and durable motor to work with - a good move especially for turbocharging applications. But if you are not as worried about saving money, go for a B20 or H22A.

[GuitarManiac101]

What are the "sleeves on an engine" and about how much are the B20 engines?

[JD@af]

Each cylinder has a "bore," or the space where the piston moves up and down. The stock Honda bores and fairly thin, made of a high-silica-content aluminum. This provides decent strength, and is fairly brittle. A good, solid iron bore, which would be installed by removing the stock aluminum bore by cutting around it and putting the new iron bore in place is thicker, stronger, and I believe less brittle, which is a positive attribute (and I believe the reason why iron is actually preferable to steel in this application).

As for the B20's I believe the going rate these days, just for the block, is perhaps $1,100. Once people find a good combination (like the B20 block with B17A crankshaft), everybody wants them and their prices get gouged. You can try to find them cheaper, or maybe even bore out a B18B block to make it into a B20 (B18B bore = 81 mm/B20 bore = 84 mm).

[JD@af]

The block on the top is a Honda B16A engine with stock cylinder bores. The block on the bottom is a Honda B16A refitted with Golden Eagle ductile iron sleeves.