2003 ford Windstar Rough Idle/Stall

[CharityDC]

Hello again. Hopefully I can find some things to check out before I just run this van off into the ocean. >.<

It is idling very rough at times, not all the time, when sitting at stop lights/signs. Sometimes it will stall out. 3 times it has stalled in the middle of an intersection while turning. Scary as hell! I Have to stop the van on the side of the road, put it in park, turn it off, then start it again before I can go. This process is getting Old!

While sitting at a stop sign/light, it's like the engine surges up and down. Some surges get low enough that the van will just die. If I step on the gas or put the van in neutral it will quit for a minute. All of the lights in, on, outside of the van go bright/dim with every surge. The battery light will occasionally flash on and off during the surges, but not every time.

My husband is starting with spark plugs. What else would we check to find the cause of this?

I have included a youtube video. ***It is best listened to with earphones***
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxuHUixGEx0
You will notice the abs light goes dim and bright when it surges. Sorry the video is not great as I was waiting to pick up my son from school. You will also see my mileage display don't work, and I'm not even sure what else works on there. The rpm sticks so it rarely moves.

[phil-l]

I'm not sure if you mentioned this in any past posts: What kind of shape is the IAC (Idle Air Control) valve in? This page is very useful for understanding Windstar idle issues:

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar02.html

[scubacat]

The battery light is a pretty good clue, and is the biggest concern. As soon as possible, stop by advance auto (or your favorite auto parts store) and ask for the free battery/alternator/starter test. If that test doesn't snow anything, you probably still have a bad voltage regulator which means you need a new alternator. The dimming lights, etc. are a classic Windstar symptom of a bad alternator. And, improper voltage could wreak havoc on the IAC valve, causing those exact idle symptoms.

Remember, electronics are a critical component of any modern vehicle. Improper voltage or amperage can cause very unpredictable behavior.

Note: This is very unlikely to be an ignition issue. Replacing spark plugs won't hurt, but will probably not resolve the issue. Having said that, be sure to ONLY use autolite plugs part # APP105. Any other plugs can cause the engine to run less than optimally.

[azharj]

Agreed with Phil and Subcut, I had the same problem. I accidentally, discovered a break on the underside of the rubber hose connecting the air filter box and throttle body. It was visble when I accidentally pulled slightly. New was not available so I wound a plastic tape and it worked well. azharj

[tomj76]

Voltage output from alternator might be low, but the battery should act as a backup to keep it from dropping too low. The battery light is an indicator that turns on when the alternator is no longer supplying the electrical power for the van's electrical demands. Although this means the voltage is less than the normal operating voltage, it should not cause the engine to stall. Instead I see this as something caused by the engine running poorly, not something that causes the engine to run poorly.

Do you have a check engine light? If so get the freeze frame data. You might have a problem with the EGR system (if it opens a low RPM the engine can stall).

[CharityDC]

I am sorry I did not get a notification I had replies then I forgot which forum I posted on!
The Alternator was replaced maybe 4 years ago?
A friend of ours hooked up his code reader and pulled these 3 codes P1336, P0171 and P0174.

I read somewhere it could be the MAF. It says, If I unplug the MAF while the van is running and it shuts off, the MAF is not the issue. But If I unplug the MAF while it is running and it does NOT shut off the there is an issue with the MAF.
I unplugged the MAF and the van did NOT shut off and the engine sounded better. But when I plugged it back in I could tell there was more of a strain on the engine.

My husband seems to think it may be the fuel filter making it stall because i use to have a habit of driving it until the dummy light (gas light) came on. I no longer do that. lol

I have not once ever had the check engine light come on, I am not even sure if the check engine light works as the odometer does not work at all as you can tell in the video on original post.

I have a voltmeter i can check some things if you tell me what to check. Thanks everyone for your help!

[scubacat]

Definitely change the fuel filter if it's been a while, but your problem is the intake bolt rubber grommets. Check the 4th sticky item down from the top of the forum threads about code 171 and 174. Also, phil-l above gave you the link about the IAC, but that same site has the fix you're looking for. Do this repair, then see if any other codes still come back. If you still get the P1336 after replacing the grommets, post back and we'll troubleshoot that separately. (The grommets are about $10 from rock auto.)

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

[CharityDC]

Thanks, I am at the moment cleaning the IAC. It was dirty. And i did what the IAC page said....disconnect IAC plug and start van........it acted just like it does when stopped at a light to long.

Originally Posted by scubacat

Definitely change the fuel filter if it's been a while, but your problem is the intake bolt rubber grommets. Check the 4th sticky item down from the top of the forum threads about code 171 and 174. Also, phil-l above gave you the link about the IAC, but that same site has the fix you're looking for. Do this repair, then see if any other codes still come back. If you still get the P1336 after replacing the grommets, post back and we'll troubleshoot that separately. (The grommets are about $10 from rock auto.)

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

[CharityDC]

Iac

[CharityDC]

I've cleaned the IAC as best as I could. The valve can be moved freely. It is still running the same. On to the next phase!

[tomj76]

Lean = too much air, not enough fuel. Points to vacuum leak. (isolator bolt leaks on some models is one cause). Fuel filters can cause lean operation, but not usually at idle unless there is also a big issue under power (more fuel demand).

Lean operation can

For the MAF to cause lean, then it has to be under reading the air flow. It can be cleaned with MAF cleaner and a little bit of disassembly.

CEL (check engine light) always turns on with key on, engine off condition. The oil pressure light, alternator (battery) light are also on in this condition. If it isn't lit then the bulb could need to be replaced.

Code P1336 is indicating an issue with the timing between the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor. There's an alignment procedure to adjust the camshaft position to match the crankshaft. I believe it is available on the Autozone repair guides. I don't think that code can be caused by a vacuum leak or fuel delivery problem, so you might want to tackle that one first. There are lots of websites that provide diagnostic advice for the code. Goggle FORD tsb 02-22-1 for a PDF to help.

[CharityDC]

Thank you so much for explaining all of these in detail!!
The CEL has never came on when the key is on but engine off, I don't know how hard it is to change that buld or if I would want to go to the trouble of disassembling to get to it.

I may need a new camshaft sensor as I THINK i remember finding a magnet on something next to it where i knew there wasn't supposed to be one, I may have left it there not sure. But I do see where someone has maybe put liquid electrical tape ontop of the camshaft (the black cap part) at some time, it sure wasn't us!

I will go in order of all of these least expensive - more. We'll figure it out one way or another and I will report back here.
I have bought myself my own code reader so I will have that and a volt meter at all times for any issues. Now if only i had my own vac checker thingy.

Thanks again!

Originally Posted by tomj76

Lean = too much air, not enough fuel. Points to vacuum leak. (isolator bolt leaks on some models is one cause). Fuel filters can cause lean operation, but not usually at idle unless there is also a big issue under power (more fuel demand).

Lean operation can

For the MAF to cause lean, then it has to be under reading the air flow. It can be cleaned with MAF cleaner and a little bit of disassembly.

CEL (check engine light) always turns on with key on, engine off condition. The oil pressure light, alternator (battery) light are also on in this condition. If it isn't lit then the bulb could need to be replaced.

Code P1336 is indicating an issue with the timing between the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor. There's an alignment procedure to adjust the camshaft position to match the crankshaft. I believe it is available on the Autozone repair guides. I don't think that code can be caused by a vacuum leak or fuel delivery problem, so you might want to tackle that one first. There are lots of websites that provide diagnostic advice for the code. Goggle FORD tsb 02-22-1 for a PDF to help.

[CharityDC]

I went searching for that magnet and am beginning to think that was on my husbands car I did however see this crack on a rubber hose coming from i don't know. It comes off of the metal line you see in the attached picture (yellow). What is this? It doesn't seem like there is a leak or anything there as the end it attaches to goes past the end of that crack. The Other end that is connected to the metal pipe also as a smaller crack where it attaches. but there is no hole on either.
13181158_10153975266331558_890000360_n.jpg

13162533_10153975266411558_535841192_n.jpg

[CharityDC]

Originally Posted by tomj76

For the MAF to cause lean, then it has to be under reading the air flow. It can be cleaned with MAF cleaner and a little bit of disassembly.

I looked up how to check the MAF with a volt meter......I got NO readings whatsoever on my voltmeter from it assuming that I in fact did do it right. Am I right to suspect I need a new one? Even tho I got no volts from it, It seemed to run better in the driveway with it unplugged. Will it hurt to unplug it and drive it around for a few minutes to see if I can get it to produce the same surging/stalling?

[tomj76]

"assuming that I in fact did do it right" always the challenge, especially when it comes to electric devices. It wouldn't hurt to repeat the test. An non-functional MAF should set a code in the PCM.

I don't know the pipe that has the cracks. My Windstar is a'96 and has different hose routing. It looks like it could be the fuel rail, although this is a metal pipe (aluminium?) that should be shiny compared with the photograph. Of course it would leak a lot of fuel if it were cracked.