Starter on Volvo 850 won't turn over

[KarenRei]

Hiya. First off, I should start by pointing out that I'm *not* the car person, I'm writing for the car person (my ex), who is uncomfortable with web forums. So please bear with me!

My ex is trying to fix his Volvo which he bought, knowing that it wouldn't start. He suspected the starter and the battery, and something else that I don't know anything about but I don't think applies here; the previous owner apparently ruined the battery and starter by trying to start it too long. He took the starter out and send it off to get repaired, but they said it was too damaged and he had to buy a new one, which he did and subsequently installed. He has not changed out the battery yet.

I and another friend helped him this weekend with the easy tasks like key turning and flashlight holding I also brought a multimeter. We used a different car to help try to start it. The battery on the Volvo on its own measured 9V. The other car measured 12,5. With everything connected, he used the multimeter on two terminals of the starter. He got a constant voltage. Then when he had me try to start the car, voltage came on the starter. Still, the starter doesn't make any clicking sound. He tried a procedure from the net to jump the starter by connecting the terminals with a screwdriver and got a temporary click, but then nothing more.

This is, as mentioned, a brand new starter.

What advice can any of you offer to him? Thanks

[shorod]

If you still had the bad battery in the car and the donor car was connected via jumper cables, you would have been drawing the donor battery down pretty low. I'd suggest you either remove the battery from the Volvo and charge it or replace it, then try again. Or pull the battery from the donor vehicle and temporarily connect it making sure the polarity is correct.

With all the attempts he's made to get this thing started it's also possible he might have filled the cylinders up with raw fuel and hydro-locked the engine. Another thing to try would be to pull the spark plugs and again try to engage the starter. If it now spins the engine over, he could try reinstalling the plugs and trying to get it started again. However, if it was sitting for very long, the fuel in the tank may be deteriorated to a point where it's not as flammable as it should be and therefore still make it difficult to get the engine started and running.

-Rod

[Dave B.]

Shorod (above) has given you some good advice. If you've tried it and still can't get the starter to spin, this is how I'd approach it:
1. Trace the cable that runs from the negative ( - ) side of the battery to the body/frame of the car. Remove the bolt or nut that secures it and thoroughly clean the end of the cable and the place it attaches with a wire brush until they're both shiney-clean. In my years of repairing cars, I've found that more no-start problems have to do with bad grounds than any other problem.
2. If the ground isn't the problem, borrow or buy a known good battery that will fit in the car and hook up the cables. 'Bump' the ignition switch gently. If the starter tries to turn the engine, remove the spark plugs and let the engine crank over several times to expel anything that might be in the cylinders. If anything except raw gas comes out the spark plug holes (especially look for antifreeze), stop what you're doing and tell us what you found. If you don't get anything except raw gas or air, replace the spark plugs and try to start the engine.
Since you don't know anything for certain about the engine, you should also understand that there could also be other damaged parts which could keep the engine from turning over. Try what we've suggested and report back to us.
Finally.... Good Luck!
Dave B.

[KarenRei]

Thanks, you two! The donor car's battery wouldn't be run down, he was running the whole time, but otherwise, that all sounds reasonable. I've passed all that information off to him and will report back.

[Dave B.]

Originally Posted by KarenRei

Thanks, you two! The donor car's battery wouldn't be run down, he was running the whole time, but otherwise, that all sounds reasonable. I've passed all that information off to him and will report back.

You're welcome! But - just so we're perfectly clear here - do NOT use jumper cables in this situation - put the donor battery in the Volvo. Two reasons: 1. If the Volvo's battery has an internal short, it may drain so much of the current from the donor car that the starter won't have enough to turn. 2. The current demands created by the electrical systems in modern cars are so high that many jumper cables can't supply enough power. I had this happen last year with my wife's 2010 daily driver. It had been starting just fine until one day when she stopped at church for about an hour. When she tried to start the car, the lights would come on but the starter wouldn't turn. I tried jumping it with my truck, which has a very heavy-duty battery, but it still wouldn't turn over. We're good friends with the owner of the dealership where we bought the car, so I called and asked him what he suggested. He sent his service manager over with a new battery. We installed it and the car started on the first crank!

All4now
Dave B.

[KarenRei]

Thanks

Okay, latest info from him: "I'm done cleaning up the ground wire from the minus in the body, and to the engine, with a new battery and it doesn't try to turn. I took the starter out, and connected it with power. It works, does everything that it's supposed to do. So I can't implement anything that's on the list because the engine isn't turning And the starter doesn't do anything when it's in the car."

He then continued: "The engine can't turn because the starter sucks when it's in the car."

[Crvett69]

have him hook the voltmeter to the small wire going to starter and see if it has 12v when someone turns the key to start position

[KarenRei]

He says we did that and got 12 volts constantly on the live wire and 12 volts on the starter wire when we tried to start the car.

[shorod]

He can totally remove the spark plugs and see if the starter will turn the engine over. Heck, with the spark plugs removed he should be able to put a wrench on the crankshaft and spin the engine by hand.

If he removes the spark plugs and tries the starter and that allows the engine to spin over, then he knows the circuit to the starter is good and either the engine was hydrolocked, the starter does not work correctly under load, or the timing is off and compression is causing the starter to not have sufficient torque to make more than a revolution of the engine.

The key here being to remove all the spark plugs so the starter is not fighting a huge load. He might want to try spinning the engine with a wrench as well just to make sure the engine is not otherwise seized up.

-Rod

[KarenRei]

Originally Posted by shorod

The key here being to remove all the spark plugs so the starter is not fighting a huge load. He might want to try spinning the engine with a wrench as well just to make sure the engine is not otherwise seized up.

-Rod

How does one do that, turn the engine with a wrench? He's never done that before.

[Dave B.]

Originally Posted by KarenRei

How does one do that, turn the engine with a wrench? He's never done that before.

The 'lowest' pulley on the engine block is attached to the end of the crankshaft. The crankshaft is what the starter turns when it's working properly. The pistons are connected to the crankshaft by rods that allow them to move up and down as the crankshaft turns. There is usually a big nut in the center of the pulley on the crankshaft. With the car in neutral and the spark plugs removed, he should be able to rotate the crankshaft by putting a socket on the big nut and turning it with a long-handled breaker bar.

It's sounding more and more like there is some internal mechanical problem with the engine that's keeping it from turning. There are numerous possibilities. If he can't turn the engine with the breaker bar, it's probably time to start dis-assembling it to find the problem.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by Dave B.

If he can't turn the engine with the breaker bar, it's probably time to start dis-assembling it to find the problem.

Just be sure all spark plugs are removed before trying to spin the engine with the wrench so he's not fighting against engine compression.

-Rod

[KarenRei]

He wasn't able to work on the car today, he has to pick up some tools tomorrow. He has a question, though: does the starter have to be in the car to turn the engine with a wrench? I would assume not, but that would be a completely uneducated guess.

[Crvett69]

no it does not need to be in the car to turn it with the socket

[KarenRei]

Originally Posted by Crvett69

no it does not need to be in the car to turn it with the socket

Thank ya-s I'll let you know how it goes.