Hard time starting

[copcap96]

Hi everyone,

Our 1997 Lumina with a 3.1 liter engine and about 190,000KMS is having difficulty starting in the morning.

I have changed the spark plugs, plug wires, checked the connections to the battery and put dielectric grease on them. None of that seemed to make much of a difference. The key has to be held for about 5-7 seconds and it coughs to life and then runs rough for about another 5 seconds and the interior lights are dim during this too. After that it comes to life and runs great.

Is it possible for starters to start to weaken? I have never had a starter do that, they have either worked or not. Besides that, I don't know what else could be the problem.

I have heard that these engines can have condensation issues when the temperature straddles the freezing mark, which it has been the last few weeks. Maybe it just needs to get below zero and stay there?

Anyway, thanks for any tips anyone might have on this issue.

[Schurkey]

Does it crank at nearly the usual speed, but not RUN properly, or does it crank slowly and not run properly?

[copcap96]

It does seem to crank properly, it just seems to struggle to actually start. Once it starts and gets past that 5-7 second rough running it sounds and runs great. Maybe the starter isn't quite turning fast or powerfully enough which makes the car difficult to start?

I assume that if it was something ignition related, the car would run rough always, not just at very initial start up.

I suppose now that the plugs and plug wires are done, if this continues I can always just bite the bullet and change the battery, and if needed the starter. I would just hate to be changing all these things is there is something else that may be the problem.

I am going to go disconnect the starter this weekend and make sure the connections are nice and clean, maybe a bad ground on the starter could be the problem?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by copcap96

It does seem to crank properly, it just seems to struggle to actually start. Once it starts and gets past that 5-7 second rough running it sounds and runs great. Maybe the starter isn't quite turning fast or powerfully enough which makes the car difficult to start?

I assume that if it was something ignition related, the car would run rough always, not just at very initial start up.

I suppose now that the plugs and plug wires are done, if this continues I can always just bite the bullet and change the battery, and if needed the starter. I would just hate to be changing all these things is there is something else that may be the problem.

I am going to go disconnect the starter this weekend and make sure the connections are nice and clean, maybe a bad ground on the starter could be the problem?

If it cranks good, it's almost certainly NOT the battery or the starter motor.

You've already taken care of ignition system; at least part of it.

WHAT IS THE FUEL PRESSURE? When did you last change the fuel filter? That, and the possibility of injector leakage are the things that come immediately to mind.

[rustydogy]

Excuse me for jumping in , You say lights are dim for a bit after you get it started? more then a second or too? you may want to have your alt checked (regulator checked )I believe its internal on that one ,a diode may be bad causing a drain on ignition source(going to ground )witch would or may cause such a problem , starving coil from power ,How is it on warm start up ? do things act the same way ? The dimming of lights is normal during cranking as most power is put towards the starter, Its after you let the key go im asking about ..........just trying to help

[copcap96]

Hi,

It only seems to be a problem in colder temperatures. I don't drive the car regularly but my girlfriend never complained about it in the warm weather.

She actually said it stalled twice this morning and was afraid to try again. I ran out and got it going, it just seems like the starter needs to be held a few extra seconds while it is attempting to fire up. A little tiny bit of gas during the struggling helps too.

Maybe its just old and that's just going to be the way it is. I will check the connections to the alternator and starter this weekend, after that I don't know what else can be done other than buying new parts.

Thanks for your guys help with this.

[rkvons]

Originally Posted by copcap96

Hi,

It only seems to be a problem in colder temperatures. I don't drive the car regularly but my girlfriend never complained about it in the warm weather.

She actually said it stalled twice this morning and was afraid to try again. I ran out and got it going, it just seems like the starter needs to be held a few extra seconds while it is attempting to fire up. A little tiny bit of gas during the struggling helps too.

Maybe its just old and that's just going to be the way it is. I will check the connections to the alternator and starter this weekend, after that I don't know what else can be done other than buying new parts.

Thanks for your guys help with this.

I have a 1998 Monte Carlo with the 3.1. When I first bought it it had a similar issue. I kinda referred to as "it did not start with conviction". It sorta had to have the starter assist it until it cleared it's throat. Well it turned out to be fouled up injectors. When you start your car, it should hit in less than a complete revolution and bang to 1200 RPMs or so.

[copcap96]

Originally Posted by rkvons

I have a 1998 Monte Carlo with the 3.1. When I first bought it it had a similar issue. I kinda referred to as "it did not start with conviction". It sorta had to have the starter assist it until it cleared it's throat. Well it turned out to be fouled up injectors. When you start your car, it should hit in less than a complete revolution and bang to 1200 RPMs or so.

Thank you! That is exactly the same issue, I just couldn't think of the right way to word it. I will have a look at the injectors this weekend as you and the above poster suggested it may be. I suppose if it is this big of a problem that one of those injector cleaner fluids you put in the gas tank will not do much, they likely need to be changed right? Hopefully that is not too hard to do. I suppose I will change the filter while I am at it too.

So after you changed your injectors I assume that the issue was fixed?

Thanks everyone.

[aleekat]

If you decide to replace the injectors and you have time to wait. Numerous sites out there that will clean and test all your injectors. I had 4 done for around $50 to include shipping. I have also seen guys do a "home built" injector cleaner. Search around.

[copcap96]

Alright, I will do that. At the least I will probably just add whatever seems to be the most reccomended injector cleaner and hope for the best, it can't make them any worse.... or so I hope.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by copcap96

I will probably just add whatever seems to be the most reccomended injector cleaner

Chevron Techron; or the same thing in a GM bottle sold as AC-Delco 10-3000 (12353058)

[copcap96]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Chevron Techron; or the same thing in a GM bottle sold as AC-Delco 10-3000 (12353058)

It looks like I jumped the gun on this one a bit. I already went and bought Formula 1 Extra Strength fuel injector cleaner based on reviews. Hopefully we notice some difference in the coming weeks, if not I may go find the type you are referring to and see if it makes a difference. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Blue Bowtie]

Of course, adequate fuel pressure is necessary, even with clean or new injectors. One quick check with a pressure gauge will prove that out.

[copcap96]

That is one other part that I came across while looking into the injectors is a fuel pressure regulator valve. It looks like you have to take the plenum off to get to the injectors and the valve is right there. If it comes to having to change the injectors, I will definitely change that too.

[rkvons]

Yeah, once I determined that my injectors were fouled up, I did some research and it turns out that injector cleaners that you add to the gas do good to keep your injectors clean but don't really fix them when they've gotten real bad. So I went to the junk yard and found 6 injectors with the correct part number off another vehicle and cleaned those in my garage ahead of time. The I opened up the engine, swapped them out and put it back together in about an hour and a half. The other option is to get one of those injector cleaners that you attach to your fuel rail. That way your are cleaning them the right way without even taking your engine apart.