U.S. pilots won't face charges of assault, manslaughter

[Sean]

http://www.canada.com/victoria/story...F-C76586603092

discuss.

[Sluttypatton]

I am appauled, I agree that it isn't necessary for the pilots to face any kind of horrible punishment, but as of yet I have not seen any kind of appology. They killed four Canadians when they were told to hold fire, end of story, they fucked up and they aren't paying for it. Where is the responsibility in our society? These days when someone spills coffee on themselves and burns themselves, it's the stores fault because it was too hot...get real. These guys dropped a bomb on friendly targets, then they have the gall to blame it on "a systemic communications failure that left them without vital information", so what? Who cares if these guys understood why they shouldn't attack or not, that isn't the issue, the issue is that they were told not to, but did anyways. Come on, I want someone responsible.

[taranaki]

The USAF has been responsible over many years for many deaths of both allies and U.S. ground forces.If I were an incredibly cold and ruthless person,I could shrug and say"Shit happens in any theatre of war",but the truth is that many of these incidents are preventable.What does surprise me is that there are still people out there who actually believe that this kind of reckless behaviour will ever be punished.After all,the victims weren't U.S. citizens,were they?

[Sluttypatton]

Your a synical man taranaki, the sad thing is that I agree with you. I don't want this to turn into an American bashing forum, but I think the fact that they were not American citizens made a monumentous difference. Had they been from the US of A, the pilots would be court marshalled. After all, they were only Canadians right? Why should the Americans give a damn about anyone else but them selves? They never have before.

[YogsVR4]

I read the article as well as the reply's so far. A couple things stand out. It looks as though the people involved didn't feel that this went to the level of a court martial and had a say in how it should proceed.

Rosenow heard from dozens of high-ranking air force officials and some of the injured Canadian soldiers, eventually gathering more than 150 pieces of evidence.

In March, he found that there was sufficient evidence to send the pilots to a court martial, but that the charges should be dismissed and their case should be handled outside a military court. He said the matter should be heard in a non-judicial or administrative forum, which could result in a penalty as mild as a letter of reprimand.

If they get only a reprimand then that is pretty weak. I don't know what they deserve but its certainly more then that.

Heres a fact sheet of the incident for those who may not know the story http://www.canada.com/national/featu...E-475CA61A0BC0

I think your comment, Sluttypatton, about Americans not giving a damn about anyone else is out of line. Its on par with saying all priests are and always have been pedophiles or all homosexuals are child molesters.

[gigatron]

No yogs, I think you've made it clear in other threads that who gives a shit about European countries in the same way its with soldiers.. If this happened to US soldiers not Canadian soldiers it would be a totally different ball game, the Canadian soldiers if they shot US soldiers would have their heads chopped :/ Whenever Canadian politicians point out slightly 'extereme' facts about US politicians they are forced to retire, fired, etc... When American politicians insult Canadians or BOSS around trying to influence through embassies by pretty directly saying "NO you will do it this way" no one even beeps. Ok so there was some upset feelings but that just flew by...

[freakray]

Gigatron, excellent ramble there, now can you put it into some kind of sentence structure that makes sense?

[jon@af]

I feel that they should be reprimanded for their actions and at least demoted one rank from what they are currently. I dont believe they should have been court martialed, which makes me somewhat relieved because, yes 4 people died needlessly, but I also understand that in war situations, if you believe you are being fired upon, are you going to wait to see if it's a bad guy or are you going to attempt to protect your life and the life of your co-pilot. They made a judgement call based upon a situation that they felt was threatening to themselves. Im sure everyone has gone with the thought had they known that the soldiers that they dropped the bombs on were allies they wouldnt have dropped the bombs on them in the first place. That once again brings up the point of how they felt they were being fired upon. Good decision on no court martial, but more should be done. They should not go unpunished for this completely.

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by gigatron
No yogs, I think you've made it clear in other threads that who gives a shit about European countries in the same way its with soldiers..

Holy mixing up of facts Batman! Find that thread where that is clear. Aside from the fact Canada isn't in Europe, I've never wished harm on their soldiers.

If this happened to US soldiers not Canadian soldiers it would be a totally different ball game, the Canadian soldiers if they shot US soldiers would have their heads chopped :/

Allow me a moment to laugh at this ridiculous comment

Whenever Canadian politicians point out slightly 'extereme' facts about US politicians they are forced to retire, fired, etc...

Forced by whom? If that were the case the prime minister of Canada would have been long gone.

When American politicians insult Canadians or BOSS around trying to influence through embassies by pretty directly saying "NO you will do it this way" no one even beeps. Ok so there was some upset feelings but that just flew by...

cheese buger and the number seven?

[SHOtough]

YogsVR4
at least someone else can see right through many comments made on this political forum that have no truthful base

[gigatron]

That asshole US ambassador basically threatened and wanted Canada to go the US way with the war in Canada a US ambassador. That's what.

Prove me fucken wrong? This is AMERICAN troops so no. If it were other troops attackign Americans the whole world must know? While this is being supressed and almost forgotten.

And doesn't matter whether Canada is not Europe it's a foreign country. Unless you deleted your own posts please... check the things you and pick stated? Since you CARE so much for other foreign places that you possibly don't know.

What about the comments that Canadian politicians made towards the US, they were fired.

What abou the comments that Conservative American politicians say about other countries including Canada. Who gives a shit they are right?

Forced by whom? If that were the case the prime minister of Canada would have been long gone.

Well so should bush, in fact bush should be hanged too. Sorry ever heard of 'other' "FOREIGN" countries, DIFFERENT views? YOUR US views are not WORLD views so shut it.

Comes down to who gives a shit, you're blind your problem and it'll bite you back in the long run not us.

Hell even in American movies. A US soldier dies the dramaticizing and slow down effect makes the killing last a minute. While US troops barage 100 other troops and you don't even see who is being killed. Especially these recent propaganda flicks... sheeesh..

You don't want equality of any sort that's the point. US or no way since you don't remember please look at your threads where you bursted out 'in anger' where your views didn't match up. Hell it all started with the poor argument, you and pick. God damn neocons

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by gigatron
That asshole US ambassador basically threatened and wanted Canada to go the US way with the war in Canada a US ambassador. That's what.

Prove me fucken wrong? This is AMERICAN troops so no. If it were other troops attackign Americans the whole world must know? While this is being supressed and almost forgotten.

And doesn't matter whether Canada is not Europe it's a foreign country. Unless you deleted your own posts please... check the things you and pick stated? Since you CARE so much for other foreign places that you possibly don't know.

What about the comments that Canadian politicians made towards the US, they were fired.

What abou the comments that Conservative American politicians say about other countries including Canada. Who gives a shit they are right?



Well so should bush, in fact bush should be hanged too. Sorry ever heard of 'other' "FOREIGN" countries, DIFFERENT views? YOUR US views are not WORLD views so shut it.

Comes down to who gives a shit, you're blind your problem and it'll bite you back in the long run not us.

Hell even in American movies. A US soldier dies the dramaticizing and slow down effect makes the killing last a minute. While US troops barage 100 other troops and you don't even see who is being killed. Especially these recent propaganda flicks... sheeesh..

You don't want equality of any sort that's the point. US or no way since you don't remember please look at your threads where you bursted out 'in anger' where your views didn't match up. Hell it all started with the poor argument, you and pick. God damn neocons

You really cant make an arguement can you. You just spout your little tirade with no actual facts or at best a link to web pages that you have little or no comprehension about.

I am still waiting for you to show me where I made my feelings about foreign troops clear.
I am still waiting for you to tell me who made the Canadian officials resign. It wasn't US citizens which spawned my Critien remark which you once again failed to understand.
I am still laughing at comments like "And doesn't matter whether Canada is not Europe it's a foreign country" when you specifically talked about Europe when the thread was about Canadians.
I am waiting for your posts to contain something other then barely contained sputtering.

[gigatron]

No your blind pro-US gov mind won't comprehend it. Articles that don't suit you are 'left' and anti-american That's why I stopped posting. Isn't it ironic now you want me to post articles? I thought you considered me 'flooding' when I was posting articles..

I am still waiting for you to show me where I made my feelings about foreign troops clear.

Not troops, but generally anything foreign or not of your beliefs or 'values'.

The Canadian politicians who criticized the US in the house of commons were fired for their comments against the US by the Canadian gov. Why the hell is that? When the US gov. comments/criticizes or acts against foreign governments including the Canadian government who is just north of you might I remind you my southern bud.. who gives a shit? What about the whole lumber issue? Even the 'local' policies are corrupt till it doesn't profit you. Free trade my ass, free as long as you gain many Canadians aren't happy about that you know.

No I was pointing out to your comments about Europeans, Canada or Europe does it matter, we are foreigners not Americans, and you ain't touching this soil as your own.. Hell no If the US ever plans to invade lol hell no (We have the second highest oil resources, second to Saudi Arabia, still untapped but.. plenty )

It's blunt to you because you don't wana hear it.

Oh and smart ass, your signature speaks out your views of foreign countries, eat that

Oh and look at this what have I here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/me...ain/index.html

A soldier yes who gives a shit sorry for sounding cold blooded.. what about the Iraqi civillians? Who gives a shit they are not American? Let me guess these are 'baathist' party supporters rofl.. Note how you invaded a country and the people are accepting the 'liberation'. Now slowly the innoscent general public is being swayed away from Iraq *(due to the obvious) and look what do we have here slowly Iran (still not certain if Bush will push the envelope and go after Iran.. hmm what happens when the US gov. is at war and presidential election is about to happen? is it post-poned? I don't know, seriously).

By the way isn't it interesting that more soldiers are dying NOW then DURING the war?

[freakray]

Originally posted by gigatron
....but generally anything foreign or not of your beliefs or 'values'.

Do I hear the pot calling the kettle black here?

[Sluttypatton]

Woah, I'm sorry I even brought up the issue of nationality. I agree that I went a little overboard with my criticism of Americans, I apologize, Yogs was right, I shouldn't stereotype. But I do beleive that had the deceased soldiers been Americans, there would have been more drastic disciplinarian action.