aftermarket lsd worth it or no, please respond

[Redline_civic91]

well guys im tired of looking for a freaking b16 tranny lsd. some people can get them but no warranty fuck that shit too much of a gamble. so im considering buying this tranny from a teg and puttin in a aftermarket lsd. now what options do i have. i know quafe, phantom grip, and kaaz make some. but what have you guys heard bout these lsd. i hear mixed reactions bout phantom, good stuff from quafe(but quit expensive) and nothing bout kaaz. if you can please let me know a little more bout these lsds. let me know what you know for sure and what you've heard. thanx

[Setanta]

Quaife - seeing as Honda had an agreement with them at one stage...

Pricey for sure, but well worth it IMO

[Problem_Si]

Getting an lsd is definitely a good upgrade.

Units like Kaaz and Quaife are an entire differential unit. These are a lot more pricey than say a Phantom grip (more on that in a min). They are considerably stronger, but really aren't necessary in a fwd application.

A phantom grip is a lsd "conversion" for yourstock differential, if you will. If you've ever seen one, its amazing that it does what it does. All it is, is two squares of steel, with machined holes going throught the top and the side. Its the same Idea as a "locker" like in a muscle car, but it doesn't "lock" the wheels, it just forces them to rotate together. The end result is that you get way more starting traction (no more 1 wheel burnouts), and you get better traction on turns. This is a worthy upgrade, and they are good up to 350 crank hp. I dunno about you, but I dont think I'll be in the 300 hp range any time soon.


The point is, why spend $1000 on just a Kaaz Unit, when the phantom grip is roughly about $500 installed. Just seems like overkill to get a full differential unit.

My friend has one on his B16a and he loves it. I will be getting one very shortly for my Zc, and I will let you all know about it then

[mellowboy]

Cusco , quife and kaaz are good. So is spoon and mugen. ALL THOSE ARE EXPENSIVE but worth it. Alot of ppl went with kaaz cuz its cheaper. Garage Kwai sells them for like 8 bills i think? I"ll check with that.

[SiZ]

See, my problem with the Phantom Grip is that is really isn't an LSD at all.. Thats why I haven't just went out and bought one.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you're making a turn your outside wheels are making more of a turn than your inside, right? Its your differential that controls that, right? So if they're locked together, how is it going to be benifiting you in a corner? I thought that the phantom grip LSD would be horrible for corners, but nice for a straight line.. Maybe you can help me with my misconceptions..

If I had the dough though, I'd go with Quaiffe.. No break in like Kaaz, I don't think they're as loud as Kaaz, you don't have to replace clutch disks like with kaaz.. AND - Lifetime warantee - Unlike Kaaz.

Just some thoughts after doing a bunch of research on LSDs.. I think they're probably one of the best upgrades for a fast car, but I can't afford one, and I've been really hesitant about Phantom Grip because of what I've read and thought about...

I would love to have a Quaife LSD and a 10lbs flywheel and make people wonder how my car is so fast with just I/H/E.



EDIT: Quaife dropped their prices about a year or two ago and I'm pretty sure that they're VERY simliar price range to Kaaz.

[Problem_Si]

Let me clarify....

Like I said, the Phantom grip unit does the SAME thing as a whole differential. I was using the "locker" analogy to try and explain to those who may not have had experience with any sort of drivetrain upgrades.

In fact, the Phantom grip does exactly what you were saying on turns. The wheels are in fact turning at different rates, so that the traction is equally divided between them. This is exactly what a whole differential unit would do.

Phantom grip is a worthy install, and like I said before....getting a Kaaz, Quaife, or Cusco would be awsome, its just not really necessary in a FWD application.

[Redline_civic91]

can anyone findout where i can get a quaife, or kaaz. i know www.phantomgrip.com sells there own. these come with a 100% lifetime warranty though makes me wanna get one. im not really into auto cross, or taking sharp turns(i dont even have power stearing) im just looking for something thats gonna shoot me out of the line fast. will phantom do the job?

[nemo_wolf]

alright well i actually brought this up with my crew not to long ago ... i found a LSD unit upgrade like the phantom i believe rather then a whole LSD unit to replace on jegs.com ... if you want a direct link, check the TLD forum ... anyways ... the unit was something like 200 and change so shipped maybe 250 or less ...

ive never done anything to the drivetrain so i dont know how hard it would be to install ... but im sure someone else here can tell you about that.

[mellowboy]

Originally posted by Problem_Si
its just not really necessary in a FWD application.

Yes it is.

[civickiller]

my first 4 mods when i get my b18a runnin, clutch, lightened flywheel, quaife lsd, slicks. then im going to the track

go quaife lsd, dont be cheap

[Problem_Si]

Melloboy

Yes it is.

Care to explain, or is that it???


And redline.....no power steering is a good thing. The faster you go, the more unstable your car becomes with ps. The PG will help you on an AutoX course. I have driven my mechanic's Ef9 with PG, and its fucking awsome.

Getting a Phantom Grip is not being cheap, its being sensible. Can anyone back up their argument why it is necessary to have a full diferential Unit on a fwd application?

I think most of the tuners get caught up in name recognition. The phantom grip gets the job done, for almost 1/4 of the price of a Kaaz, Quaife or Cusco. If you really want name recognition, here you go......Clutch Masters is the producer of Phantom Grip Lsd's.

[mellowboy]

It is neccessary to have it. Why? Its just is man. Helps improving corners and grips! I like to get one cause i want to have a quick car and turn corners like its nothing. I mean you dont HAVE get lsd but it would nice to get one.

[civickiller]

question, do u want 1 wheel turning or do you want both wheels turning. i would rather have 2 wheels.

also the problem with phatom is that the lsd is only as strong as a stock honda differential, which isnt that strong

[SiZ]

Originally posted by Problem_Si

Getting a Phantom Grip is not being cheap, its being sensible. Can anyone back up their argument why it is necessary to have a full diferential Unit on a fwd application?

Can you explain how? It doesn't allow your stock differential to function like it should, the Phantom grip is just a spring loaded box that forces both wheels to turn together.. I don't see how it can have the function of an actual differential replacement that would make both wheels turn accordingly to what your car is doing, instead of just locking them together and MAKING them turn together..

I still don't see how a Phantom Grip can make cornering better... There is no moving parts, instead it eliminates moving parts that make your car turn properly.

Still

[Problem_Si]

Here's what Im trying to get at.....

All of you say you dont understand how the phantom grip can do what its "supposed" to do. If you don't understand, then how can you say that its not a cheaper alternative to a full differential?

The Phantom grip "locks" the drive wheels together on straight line acceleration = TRUE....The Phantom Grip does not allow the wheels to rotate at different rates on corners, which is essential to better cornering = FALSE.

I cannot tell you how the Engineers got this little piece of steel to do this in conjunction with the stock differential, but I CAN tell you that it does work. Again...I HAVE DRIVEN A CAR BEFORE AND AFTER PHANTOM GRIP...IT DOES MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE...And when have you ever heard of a Honda differential giving out before synchros, bearings, gears or even the trans case??? I sure haven't.

Opinion is opinion, which is fine. But if you're going to discuss a difference of opinion, you have to have fact to back it up.

Like I said before, I will be getting a Phantom Grip on my Zc in the near future. I will post then and let you guys know how I like it. Posting like this anymore is like beating a dead horse. That is of course, unless you can come up with specific reasons why a full differential is worth the extra $600, other than just a name.