Alclad airbrush help

[keveuh]

Hi everybody, I'm working on a Tamiya Carrera GT, I decided to use Alclad Aluminum on some parts. My airbrush is an Iwata HP-CR 0,5mm needle.

I first sprayed some Alclad grey primer, after 24h I sprayed Alclad Aluminum. But that's what I got:







It's not at all like it should be, it looks like the particules are not "connected" and the paint is not like a whole. Anyway far from the aluminum result I should get. I tried at 15 PSI, and I even tried a bit more and a bit less pressure. Thin layers, medium layers, nothing worked.

The only thing I can think of is that the surface was very rough due to the primer. I know primer should be sanded sometimes when it needs to, I always get rough surfaces with Alclad primer. the like the engine it's impossible to sand because it's way to many small details on the piece !

Do you have any advise on how to use Alclad Primer + aluminum properly ? Should I use another primer ? Which one ? And what to do with my pieces now ?

Thanks a lot !!!

[oter]

use gloss black as base coat

[keveuh]

Gloss black as base coat for Aluminum ? Alclad Aluminum is not one of those "hish shine" paints that need gloss black (enamel) base.

But I'm gonna try, but what kind of black then ? Enamel or lacquer ? Will the Aluminum lacquer not eat the enamel base in case ?

thanks !

[freakray]

Alclad aluminum does not require a gloss black base coat. Following the guide lines on the container is general a good bet and Alclad states on their container to use a gray primer base.

What distance are you spraying from? How wet are you laying the coat on? Have you added any additional thinner to the Alclad?

[keveuh]

Originally Posted by freakray

Alclad aluminum does not require a gloss black base coat. Following the guide lines on the container is general a good bet and Alclad states on their container to use a gray primer base.

What distance are you spraying from? How wet are you laying the coat on? Have you added any additional thinner to the Alclad?

For both primer and aluminum I try to follow Alclad instructions:
- I don't thin because it is thinned already and I wouldn't know what thinner to use anyway
- I try to spray thin layers, but that's hard to say if I do correctly. I'm afraid to pull the trigger so I'd say that the layers I spray might be too thinned
- I don't apply wet coats since Alclad doesn't recommend it and I don't think it's needed for primer and aluminum (Alclad paints)
- for the distance I don't know exactly but pretty close, especially since the pieces I paint are small it's easier to spray from a close range


I've watched Alclad tutorials and I've seen they use a single action airbrush, so obviously their "paint ouput" is definetely higher than my dual action airbrush which I barely dare to pull the trigger half the way back. That might be a part of my problem too, I don't know. I seem to have a hard time to figure out how to spray a mist coast/thin layer properly. I guess it can be too thin to be called a mist coat/thin layer.

[avd]

Someone skip a step of painting lol. Yeah after primer, you gotta paint gloss black before do alclad

[keveuh]

Originally Posted by avd

Someone skip a step of painting lol. Yeah after primer, you gotta paint gloss black before do alclad

Where does Alclad say to use a gloss black underneath a "REGULAR ALCLAD FINISH" which is in my case Aluminum ??

http://alclad2.com/how-to/

They don't talk about any gloss black base coat for the regular finishes such as Aluminum.

And on their website still, a tutorial video (that I've watched already) shows that the guy sprays Aluminum on top of Primer without anything else. I think you're mixing the high shines and regular Alclad finishes.

But anyway I would gladly take the advice of putting some gloss black underneath the Aluminum but Alclad says on their website that the Aluminum is "is similar in strength to lacquer/cellulose", which means if I use a enamel black (like I would do with their high shines finishes) it would certainly react and craze. I mean I think it's just primer to use but HOW to prevent having a rough surface on parts you cannot sand later on ??
Because when I painted the aluminum it reallt felt like the primer was absorbing the aluminum... well you can see on the pictures.

Thanks.

[sjelic]

Check the bottle, if paint is not fully consistent (if it has like small particles inside) then it is old and you will hardly get good coat out of it, if you cannot spray very lightly at low pressure then this is the case, you should buy new bottle, for alu I don't use gloss black every time.

[keveuh]

Originally Posted by sjelic

Check the bottle, if paint is not fully consistent (if it has like small particles inside) then it is old and you will hardly get good coat out of it, if you cannot spray very lightly at low pressure then this is the case, you should buy new bottle, for alu I don't use gloss black every time.

I checked my bottle and the paint looks normal to me, but then again I might be wrong.
When you use gloss black, what kind of gloss black do you use underneath Alclad aluminum ? Brand ? Lacquer, enamel ?

Thanks

[sjelic]

i prefer revell enemal, but humbrol or any other enemal will be ok

[keveuh]

Originally Posted by sjelic

i prefer revell enemal, but humbrol or any other enemal will be ok

So you say enamel underneath Alclad regular shine Aluminum is ok ?

I'll give it a try, I have prepared some test spoons already, and my parts on the pictures here are taking a brake liquid bath.

[white97ex]

I used alclad blackbsse coat undr my aluminum parts and they came out just fine. Smooth surface and the proper finish. Sometimes manufacturer recommendations aren't the best for all situations..

[ZoomZoomMX-5]

I love how people get Alclad's own instructions wrong and then prove their lack of reading comprehension when telling others what they did wrong...gloss black isn't the primer/base coat for aluminum. Read the instructions.

The problem almost has to be the primer. I've not used Alclad primer, what I use on most everything is Mr. Hobby Mr. Surfacer 1000 or 1200, it goes on extremely smooth, smoother than Tamiya fine spray primer. You have to adjust your mixture accordingly for good flow, as w/any paint run through the airbrush.

One thing to learn from this, is if you see the problem, don't keep going...all the parts have the same "damage", which could be minimized if you stop and figure out what's happening.

I'm starting this same kit today. Good luck, I would think you'll need to strip those parts and start over...make doubly sure the primer is smooth as possible.

[Vric]

I recall seeing somewhere that the Alclad Primer wasn't the greatest thing since the wheel. Maybe there's a reaction between it and the paint.

As for the black base, it's NOT needed for this color. (Stop saying the obvious when you have no idea) It's only for high shine (chrome) paint, and even there, if you don't use it, you will still have good result.

I use Alclad quite a bit. I own about 15 different colors (and their own black base) and never had this problem with my HP-CP (0.3mm needle) I sometime even paint Alclad strait on the plastic without primer or base coat. The paint will be a bit more fragile, but it works fine for most color, except chrome which will come out more aluminum than chrome.

Try spaying paint on a sprue part without primer or anything. You will see if it's the paint that is too old or if it's the primer that affect it. Also build the color. Do only small coat at the time, never do a wet coat since the paint is a bit hot for plastic. Alclad paint dry within seconds anyway, so paint, spray some air, paint, air and so one until you have a good coverage (3-4 light coats should be fine) And shake the bottle well enough.

[keveuh]

ZoomZoom MX-5 and Vric = thanks for your answers.

My messed up parts are already in brake fluid to remove the paint. I'll try on some spoons different things, like primer + aluminum, aluminum direct on plastic, aluminum on black gloss enamel. I'll try to practise and find the right way to use that Alclad primer because even if it's not everyone's favourite many people use it without problem.

And eventually I'll get a bottle of Mr Hobby Primer 1000 (or 1200?) that I will thin with the leveling thinner I already have. But I really believe the problem for me was the primer being to rough.

And by the way, how should I know if my bottle of Aluminum is too old ? Will the paint behave in some specific weird way ? Then again it might be just me not using it properly...