transmission replacement - your thoughts

[northern piper]

hey fellas

I figured I'd start a new thread on this. My 2000 3.8 with 190,000 km has a problem with the transmission. In another thread I've discussed the slipping that it's doing. Time will tell if the fluid exchange/filter change/additive works but assuming it doesn't, I'm faced with some choices.

1) dump the van. Nobody is going to buy a 2000 windstar with a slipping transmission - maybe $200 from the wrecker if I'm lucky.
2) have the transmission replaced at a shop with a reman'd unit - over $2500 I'd bet, and not worth it in the end
3) replace the transmission myself with a reman'd unit - probably $2000 all in. I've checked and can get the reman'd trans for $1600.
4) replace the transmission myself with a parts transmission (wrecker) that I can get for $450 cash which has a 90 day warranty.

Couple of facts: the van body is in quite good condition, as it the interior. The undercarriage is rusted somewhat. Add to this, I've never removed or replaced a transmission, but 5 yrs ago I'd never done an oil change (since then I've done brakes, exhaust, full suspension, po174, starter, alternator, etc...) and (big and) I've got a full heated garage with 2 post lift, compressor although I don't have a transmission jack or the tools to support the engine during the trans removal.

So generally I'm wondering everyone's thoughts. I guess my real "hmm" is, is it worth spending the $450 and replacing the trans myself understanding that I'm likely going to turn around and sell the van? Would that be good money after bad? If the van was in excellent shape rust-wise I'd replace the trans with a reman'd one but I just don't think if I did that now I"d get the ~$2500 out of the van. I think if I can solve the slip problem I really should be selling it.

Thoughts?

[12Ounce]

Well, you probably know my suggestion. DIY with only a Ford reman. That way you get the best warranty and all the engineering upgrades. It comes will all new electrics and full of fluid. Complete with new toroid.

I paid $1700 a few years back, so the price has dropped apparently. You can look up my posting where I did the tranny and an engine refreshing at the same time. To my mind, the subframe is very easy to lower to the ground. I used some special studs I made from all-thread rod of the correct threads ... that is handy but not necessary. A good floor jack or two would do as well.

[northern piper]

umm wow... I called my local ford dealer to just confirm.. glad I did. I dunno where the guy earlier got the price from but the Canadian cost for a reman'd trans lists at $3200. The parts guy says "he'll give it to me" for $2600. Oh, a screaming deal...

anyway, got some more thinking to do about this...

[12Ounce]

Yeah, that tranny is prob built "down here" ... so it would cost you more bucks Canadian, I guess. But considering the time that has passed ... that's not too bad.

When making decisions like this, I have to put things like "market value" out of my thinking. Its how much the ride, once fixed, is worth to me. A dependable ride for $3k, or thereabouts ... is a pretty good deal, I think.

[dhollow2]

I'll second 12Ounce's thoughts. I'm in nearly the same situation. 2000 3.8l with 138k miles. We bought it from my in-laws with 118k on it in 2009 knowing it had been very well cared for but not realizing the transmission was slipping slightly. My plan is to replace the transmission myself when it degrades to a point that I think it can't be driven reliably. I can replace the transmission (Ford reman) and subframe (ours spent 9 years in Michigan and has had the recall performed on it) for about $2,500 including buying an engine support bar, transmission jack adapter and any other tools I don't already have. I figure that's less than a one year payback compared to the cost of replacing the van. In the mean time, each time I change the oil, I also refresh 6-7 quarts of transmission fluid by pumping it out through the dipstick tube. The slippage tends to increase a little as the fluid ages and is noticeably better after it's refreshed. I'm not sure how long it will take to reach the tipping point but with some luck it won't get there before the van is ready to be donated to our local high school's auto tech department.

[12Ounce]

Of course, depends on work space and time. It might be a good deal to buy the junk yard tranny with the 90 day warranty .... if you keep your old tranny. Take your old tranny to the work bench and rebuild it. This should give you enough time to study and become an expert on the tranny repair ... so you will have it ready to go when the junk replacement fails. A tranny repair kit prob goes for $500, or less, on line.

Like I said ... depends.

[northern piper]

oh perfect ... another idea !

ya know, the rebuild of the existing trans while the junker one is in there does have some merit. Never considered that truthfully!

Any idea if a rebuild needs machining or is it simply (ahem) replacing parts?

[12Ounce]

No machining required. Just parts replacements. Its been a long time since I've overhauled a tranny ... I have gotten away from it over the years, mostly because they last much longer now for the most. But I know kits are fairly available that will include about everything you need ... except for information. Not sure where to find that now ... other than a shop manual.

[northern piper]

So last night it occurs to me that I could pick up the junk yard trans, rebuild it on my bench, then if (when?) my current trans bites the big one I'd have a fresh trans all ready to install...

12ounce, I looked at the various rebuild kits available. Some have soft parts, hard parts., bands, solenoids, torque converter... and any combination of the same. Of course the more you buy the more it costs. In the past when you've done a rebuild, did you rebuild everything? I'm kind of leaning towards doing more than less but at the same time, if parts generally are ok, why replace them eh?

[12Ounce]

Well ...it depends. It depends on how worn you find the internals. For sure, I would plan on replacing the friction discs ... both the metal and non-metal discs: and I would replace all the rubber o-rings and flappers (if there are any) that make up the soft piston rings and valves.

Beyond that, I would replace only what appears worn ... maybe the pump drive shaft, etc. If your tranny has no chunks of aluminum or stainless steel in the pan, has only metal fuzz on the magnets and black stuff in the fluid ... you have had little "extra" wear ... and I would expect no hard parts outside the discs are needed.

But hopefully, we will hear from those who actually know.

[northern piper]

I guess the good news is, I could dismantle the trans, see what looks bad beyond the normal soft parts and then order. I get the impression that buying everything in a kit vs part by part is the way to go. I've been googling the "master rebuild" kits which seem to cover most parts, not including solenoids and torque converter.

[12Ounce]

I would gamble on the old torque converter unless there was much metal chunks visible in the fluid.

[kevink1955]

I think 1 of the failure points in this trans are the splines in the convertor that drive the pump shaft. I do not know if this was fixed by 2000 but if it was not I would change the convertor and shaft while it is down.

[northern piper]

Hey guys

I took a look at the alldatadiy steps to remove the transmission. It doesn't look too bad overall but I'm wondering about 3 things.

1) engine support. The alldatadiy site lists a special bar which crosses the engine bay, the bar being supported on the shock towers. It also has a segment which goes from the middle of the front of the van resting on the rad support. This assembly I'm thinking holds the motor so that the sub frame can be safely removed and then the transmission lowered from below. I'm wondering if anyone has used one of the commercially available bars like this one http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/1090009/
to accomplish supporting the motor.
2) removing the halfshafts as well calls for another tool for their removal. It looks like a puller of sorts. I've never removed a half shaft so I'm interested to know about it.
3) I'm thinking I'll need some sort of transmission jack to attach the trans to for lowering the trans once detached from the motor. That I think I can borrow..find etc.

I have the luxury of a 2 post lift in my garage so that's great that I can get beneath the van easily. I know 12Ounce used long threaded rod to lower the subframe which wouldn't work with my lift.

Final question, how much does a A4XS trans weigh roughly? Is it something that a couple of guys can muscle onto the jack?

thanks fellas..

[12Ounce]

Two guys should be able to handle OK. It is large, heavy and unwieldy ... I was alone and it was quite a task. But loading onto the subframe while the subframe is on the floor would be my choice. Not to say it can't be done other ways.