2000 Windstar intermittent won't start due to severe misfiring

[MrCreosote]

First, its not a sticky IAC. I already experience that in cold weather and compensate simply with the gas pedal until engine warms up.

However this coughing, sputtering, backfiring, misfiring problem is very severe. When it is in this state, the engine will lose rpm and stall. No way to coax it with the gas pedal to keep it running.

It happens most often when you restart the engine after having stopped somewhere for 10-30 minutes. It happens less often during a cold start in the morning.

When it does this, I remove the key, and try again. Usually in 3-10 trys, the engine runs properly. Once running properly, there is never an occurrence of this.

However, today only, first cold start, it cranked and would not fire at all. Repeatedly. Jiggled the key and maybe they helped it start. Ignition switch? Unrelated problem? If Neutral Switch, it should not have cranked. Perhaps my intermittent problem is worsening.

Wet weather seems to aggravate it. Here in PA it is cold and snowing too.

Thanks in advance,
Tom

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by MrCreosote

First, its not a sticky IAC. I already experience that in cold weather and compensate simply with the gas pedal until engine warms up.

However this coughing, sputtering, backfiring, misfiring problem is very severe. When it is in this state, the engine will lose rpm and stall. No way to coax it with the gas pedal to keep it running.

It happens most often when you restart the engine after having stopped somewhere for 10-30 minutes. It happens less often during a cold start in the morning.

When it does this, I remove the key, and try again. Usually in 3-10 trys, the engine runs properly. Once running properly, there is never an occurrence of this.

However, today only, first cold start, it cranked and would not fire at all. Repeatedly. Jiggled the key and maybe they helped it start. Ignition switch? Unrelated problem? If Neutral Switch, it should not have cranked. Perhaps my intermittent problem is worsening.

Wet weather seems to aggravate it. Here in PA it is cold and snowing too.

Thanks in advance,
Tom

Have you by chance checked for spark or fuel when this happens??

Have you checked the fuel pressure???

Any codes by chance pending or hard??

[catvents]

Mr Creosote misfiring is often an ignition coil problem; I know about the other details you have mentionned it could be other thing, but I would take a look on the coil condition in first, just in case.
And if you complain about snow and cold just take a look on the north eastern states weather condition
Good luck

[12Ounce]

Assuming the coil, cables, and plugs are OK ... I would try the cam pos sensor and the crank pos sensor.

And then the fuel pump.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by catvents

Mr Creosote misfiring is often an ignition coil problem; I know about the other details you have mentionned it could be other thing, but I would take a look on the coil condition in first, just in case.
And if you complain about snow and cold just take a look on the north eastern states weather condition
Good luck

+1 on checking the coil for cracks.

[MrCreosote]

Situation is degrading. Now problems occur approximately 50% of the time when starting. (cranks, nothing or sputters, then eventually starts perfectly)

Took the coil pack off. There were no cracks in the encapsulation however rust of the magnet iron has caused it to swell so that the plastic housing on one end was cracked. Found another crack that was forming in the black plastic on bottom in the middle.

I replaced the coil, spent $70 and that was not the problem. I didn't have time to get the part for about 1/2 price from RockAuto unfortunately.

Next thing: swap the horn and fuel pump relay.

Also, friend who has a taxi company had a cab that was really acting up and it was the fuel filter. So I'll do that one too.

Frankly, I think it is a bad ground.

1. Once it starts, it runs perfectly 100% of the time.
2. All problems occur during start - it either just cranks or starts but ignition misfire/sputtering/backfiring occurs and it "flames out."
3. Seems to be worse in cold and/or wet weather.

Hopefully, its not the computer.

[MrCreosote]

It finally FAILED TO START!!!! So I could do a little troubleshooting.

Would start with ether. Swapping fuel pump and horn relays did nothing.

I suspect it is the fuel pump - probably had a dead spot.

The symptom was on start. Either engine sputtered and died or it would start and run perfectly. If the pump did manage to spin up, it would work until it was shut down again.

I don't think a fuel filter could be so ON and OFF - one moment no fuel, try again and lots of fuel. I will change it however. Need to find where it is and what tools are required - I'll probably do that in the lot where its sitting right now.

Thanks
Tom

[scubacat]

Did you check the fuel pressure? I always replace plugs, wires, and coil at once. Did you check the wires? Could be a bad spot or bad connection on either end of one.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

......And then the fuel pump.

At 360k miles, I think I'm on my third, or forth, (one was bad right out of the box!) fuel pump.

[MrCreosote]

Update: BLOWN 15a Fuel Pump Fuse

DETAILS:

So van sat in store lot overnight.

Today went up with hammer to beat on tank and hope it would fire.

Here is the blow by blow: (I make funny?)

1. Try to start, cranks only
2. Beat on tank
3. Try to start, cranks only
4. Check inertia switch back by jack - OK
5. Check Fuel Pump15a fuse #5 - BLOWN
6. Replace fuse
7. Try to start, STARTS
8. Drive home
9. Turn off
10. Try to start, STARTS

Rockauto has a replacement pump only (not the assembly) for under $40.


Tank is MASSIVE - yuck. Its got about 10 gallon in it. I need to use up that gas before I drop tank. Tempted to cut hole in floor. Is a cargo van so that might not be so cool. (Who knows, maybe there is an inspection hole already there (!) )



I am going to try starting van every time I go outside to see if it reverts back to its old ways - who knows, maybe "cooking" the pump in the lot yesterday might have burned in the brushes/commutator since it blew the fuse.

[scubacat]

I'd probably use a piece of 3/4" plywood (or two) on a jack to support that tank. Luckily I haven't had to mess with it thus far. I'd say siphon it out but 10 gallons is a lot more than it sounds!

[12Ounce]

The tank is huge, but fairly light once empty of fuel. Try hooking a hose to Schraeder port on fuel rail. Long hose. Remove port core. Have end of hose lower than tank bottom. Either syphon or use pump to start flow.

[MrCreosote]

Tried to start it again and got the "sputtering and dies" response.

I'm going to replace the fuel filter next. Mechanic friend though severly clogged filter would cause pump to blow fuse. Not sure about that theory.

Also, what sound does the pump make? Does it run continuously or shut off when it reaches desired pressure?

I take it they make little pressure gauges that fit the Schrader valve on the fuel rail?

Thanks
Tom

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by MrCreosote

Tried to start it again and got the "sputtering and dies" response.

I'm going to replace the fuel filter next. Mechanic friend though severly clogged filter would cause pump to blow fuse. Not sure about that theory.

Also, what sound does the pump make? Does it run continuously or shut off when it reaches desired pressure?

I take it they make little pressure gauges that fit the Schrader valve on the fuel rail?

Thanks
Tom

Fuel pump will make like a humming noise, if you take the gas cap off then put your ear by the filler tube and have someone turn the key on without starting you should hear the pump.

When you turn the key to the run position without starting the fuel pump should run about 2-5 seconds and shut off.

Check with Orielys or autozone, etc they should have a fuel pressure tester in their LOAN A TOOL PROGRAM, just pay a deposit that is returned with tool returned.

[MrCreosote]

Spent a little time with it today.

Will not start, sputtered one or twice and then nothing.

Fuel pump fuse blown again.

Removed Schrader valve and used vacuum took to draw fuel into injector manifold. Very little vacuum was needed to get lots of fuel flow. I do not think it could be the filter now.

So the focus is now on the fuel pump.

I am going to leave this thread and start a new one specifically with the fuel pump fuse topic since it is clear now that there is no fuel pressure.