Long crank before engine starts

azharj · #1 10-28-2012, 05:43 AM

Dear members,
I have 2000 windstar, for last 2 years it stalled after 200 - 400 Km. By hit and trail I replaced air filter, IAC, tps, twice the Fuel pump, spark plugs, fuel filter, relays to fuel pump and PCM relay, gear oil, gear filter alternator, battery, cleand the fuel inectors, but nothing worked. However, ultimately by the advice of our members I replaced the coil pack spark plugs and plug wires. since then (6 Months 5000 KM) stalling is over. But a new problem started. Not all the times, it takes long cranking to start and sometimes it takes two long cranks and the starts. It seems during this time either gas or (less likely) current is not comming. I changed gas filter and motorcraft complete fuel pump assembly in february 2012 (about 10000 Km). I have also done with the lower and upper manifold gaskets. isolators etc. Previously it took only one or two seconds at the most to start. There have never been a code
Azharj

tempfixit · #2 10-28-2012, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azharj

Dear members,
I have 2000 windstar, for last 2 years it stalled after 200 - 400 Km. By hit and trail I replaced air filter, IAC, tps, twice the Fuel pump, spark plugs, fuel filter, relays to fuel pump and PCM relay, gear oil, gear filter alternator, battery, cleand the fuel inectors, but nothing worked. However, ultimately by the advice of our members I replaced the coil pack spark plugs and plug wires. since then (6 Months 5000 KM) stalling is over. But a new problem started. Not all the times, it takes long cranking to start and sometimes it takes two long cranks and the starts. It seems during this time either gas or (less likely) current is not comming. I changed gas filter and motorcraft complete fuel pump assembly in february 2012 (about 10000 Km). I have also done with the lower and upper manifold gaskets. isolators etc. Previously it took only one or two seconds at the most to start. There have never been a code
Azharj

Could be a faulty check valve in the fuel pump, not holding the pressure while not running. You could check by installing a fuel pressire tester to see if pressure disappears while engine is off.

Another thing you could try is priming the fuel pressure before starting by turning the key on for about 5 seconds then key off wait a few seconds and then turning key on again without starting. Then repeat the procdure and see if it starts quikly then. This procedure will at least elminate the fuel pump check valve as a problem. Sad part is the fuel pump needs to be replaced if this is the problem.

12Ounce · #3 10-28-2012, 06:44 AM

I agree with above plus: (in reverse order...)
... crankshaft pos sensor
... camshaft pos sensor
... fuel pump relay and PCM relay
... low system voltage caused by whatever, can be checked by voltmeter. Read tops of all fuses.

azharj · #4 10-29-2012, 03:49 PM

Thanks I think it may be battery which is already one or one and half year old
but I will follow the instructions and let you know

olopezm · #5 10-30-2012, 11:27 PM

I agree with tempfixit's idea of priming the fuel pump several times before trying to start the engine.

Another possibility could be a faulty fuel pressure regulator. While priming several times the fuel pump you can look for fuel inside the vacuum line on top of it. There should be none. If you have a fuel pressure gauge tester, the pressure should raise about 10PSI after removing the vacuum line from it while engine is running.

A bad engine coolant temperature sensor or intake air temperature sensor (built into the MAF sensor) can also cause starting problems. If you have a live-data capable scanner you can take a look at the readings at ambient temperature; both should be between a few degrees from each other.

Oscar.

scubacat · #6 10-31-2012, 06:49 PM

Given what you've done so far, you might try cleaning the MAF sensor. (Use ONLY the "MAF Sensor Cleaner" spray; simply remove the duct and spray all over and from both sides.)

azharj · #7 11-12-2012, 08:22 AM

Thanks for all. Scubacat I already have cleaned the MAF. I for got to tell that I was noticing very occasionally a voice only during acceleration when RPM were more than 4000. the voice became more frequent. It was like loose tappet of the old type cars. Last weekend I was just at 50 Km speed when I had a jerk and after that missing started with some sound from engine like "tuk tuk tuk", flashing CEL and failure to accelerate. code 0303 I was informed by mechanic that plugs wires every thing ok but may be valve, piston, rings or some thing in head. This is the end. Milage is 240,000 Miles. Any guess work?

tempfixit · #8 11-12-2012, 09:10 AM

asharj can you post a video of the sound the engine is making???

I would do a compression test on #3 clyinder for starters. Sounds like you may have a broken valve spring.

12Ounce · #9 11-12-2012, 09:58 AM

Are you saying you have twice dropped the tank and replaced the fuel pump? Have you tested the fuel pressure at the Schrader valve ... before starting? ... while the engine is still cold?

azharj · #10 11-13-2012, 08:01 AM

Thanks for all and the way you people are interested, But I do not know how to upload a video or link? Will I have to first upload it on you tube? I will give the answer in detail to all later on

olopezm · #11 11-13-2012, 10:05 AM

Hi azharj,

Yes you will need to upload it first to youtube and post the link here.

Oscar.

azharj · #12 11-14-2012, 03:02 PM

Dear Friends here is the link to my uploaded video you can listen the engine noise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJTR8...ature=youtu.be
I changed the fuel pump twice. First time only the pump motor (for Ford grand marquis). Last time full assembly from motorcraft. I did not checked the back pressure valve but pressure reading in fuel rail was within range. On Laptop IDS (ford) software showed zero (compression) pressure in cylinder 3. MAF sensor is OK I have cleaned one year back I could notice decreased water in water reservoir and A lot of water coming from silencer pipe

olopezm · #13 11-14-2012, 03:16 PM

It almost sounds like an exhaust leak but since you have zero compression in cyl 3, there must be something else.

Have you removed the valve covers? Maybe a broken valve, spring, lifter is causing the noise. I'm not very good with noises, specially when it comes to internal engine components so, I really hope a more experienced user helps you.

Oscar.

tempfixit · #14 11-14-2012, 06:57 PM

I agree with Oscar that it could be a exhaust leak but I am thinking that it could be that the Spark Plug for some reason either vibrated out of the head or the head gasket completely failed and exhaust is escaping threw the gasket space bewtween head and block which I have never experienced and do not know if that is even possible.

I am not familiar with the FORD software that you are using that reads clyinder compression. I would use a compression tester and do a actual compression test of clyinder #3 just for verification.

I would remove the cowl and do some investegating of the head and exhaust.

olopezm · #15 11-14-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tempfixit

it could be that the Spark Plug

That too! I didn't think about it; good one man!

Some Ford engines are known for "spitting" out spark plugs when not torqued properly, the 4.6L is one of them. I don't know if the 3.8 is one of those but it's surely worth to check those spark plugs.

Oscar.

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD