1999 Windstar SEL- Possible Jump Start Damage

[smata67]

Vehicle was running fine until now. This weekend, I jumpstarted my new used tractor using proper procedure battery to battery. Tractor battery was old and weak. I was very careful, all went well. I've driven the van a few times after the jumpstart and it drove fine, though the last time it cranked weakly. Two days later, I find 11.8V on the battery and van cranks weakly, but will not start. I'm currently charging the battery to get it to start and check the voltage into the battery while running. I strongly suspect it will most likely drop. I will also check voltage at the alternator. Is there anything else to check here? I suspect that it is damage due to the jump start, what usually gets fried when that happens?

[northern piper]

well, if you've done the jump start as you've said, things should be ok. How old is the battery? If it's pushing 4 to 6 years, I'd expect that it's on it's way out. The times I've heard of problems, it's usually obvious (+ve to -ve and big sparks) or that some part of the electronics have been knocked out (radio won't work..). I wonder if putting the extra drain on the battery during the jumping the tractor has pushed your battery past its limit. Most autoparts places will test the battery for free. A load test will tell you. It should be in the 700+ CCA

[phil-l]

Having jumped quite a few lawn tractors over the years: I doubt your van's current problems are the result of the jump start. However, I've had more than one car battery that went from "seemingly OK" to "nearly dead" in a short time.

I'd also get your alternator checked. If it's original, it's likely near the end of its expected life.

[12Ounce]

Well, I'm going to be the devil's advocate ... it is possible to damage a charging circuit by a high-current inrush when hooking up to a dead battery. I suspect the alternator is gone ... but who knows, it may have been on its last legs anyway and this event merely tipped it over into the grave.

Get the Winnie idling and test the battery voltage then ... should be near 14v.

[smata67]

Well, I charged up the battery (from the 11.8V) and that went fine, got it to 12.7V, amperage dropped as it charged, a good sign. I started the van and read 14.4V. So I'm going to say that the battery and alternator are ok. I proceeded to drive it around running errands, checked afterwards and battery was still at 12.7V. Everything else functions as it should in the vehicle.

Fast forward next morning, wife gets in and it starts strongly, all seems well. Then I get a call, went she went to start it the second time, cranks weak like battery is dying. So, after this jumpstart, my suspicion is that it tripped something that now causes the battery to drain and did not before. Can't explain why it started once and then didn't again, though. I did check the van last night to ensure there are no lights or anything out of the ordinary going on. I even cleaned the door contacts, as those have had some issues lately, door popping open after it closes.

I have done the diagnostics at the auto store for other vehicles, my suspicion is that they always come back saying the battery is a problem, you change it, and problem wasn't that, happened to me twice now. I couldn't find the receipt so I don't know how old the battery is, its a Bosch Premium Plus 96 month.

So I'll probably give a shot at checking for leakage current, I'm guessing all I have to do is put an ammeter in line with the battery, correct? Then pull fuses until the drain stops, I've seen the other threads about the procedure, I'll focus on those that seem to have been a problem in the past.

Almost certain the issue is related to the jumpstart, things went from hunky dory to problematic the very next day.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by smata67

................I'll probably give a shot at checking for leakage current, I'm guessing all I have to do is put an ammeter in line with the battery, correct? Then pull fuses until the drain stops, I've seen the other threads about the procedure, I'll focus on those that seem to have been a problem in the past.............

Yes, but .... that would be a rather large ammeter, not what you have on your voltmeter. An ammeter that can handle that amount of current is very pricey.

But you can do it indirectly by closely measuring the battery voltage while you unplug loads. In fact, on your model there is a special cabin fuse that can be lifted to unload the system for unnecessary loads for long storage periods ... fuse 16...?... check the glove box manual. While you are in the manual .... look up the four special "power relays" ... they are just for this purpose, unloading/dividing the system (by pulling) to help during fault analysis.

[smata67]

I have a Fluke 77 good to 10A. Other posts indicate bleed currents of less than 1A. I'll check out those relays, but probably won't be until this weekend.

[northern piper]

I understand your concern when an auto parts place just "tells you" that your battery needs replacing. I'd just ask them to test it while you stand along side and watch the results of the test. Most places are using a simple hand held digital tester that can check voltage and do a load test on the battery. The load test is important as lots of times "dead" batteries will seem ok voltage wise. Having had a very similar scenario with my own 2000 windstar, I'd be thinking that the battery is the culprit. The tester I have is this one..http://www.babcotools.ca/Tools/Porta...stic/MIDPBT200

It should help narrow down what's happening.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by smata67

I have a Fluke 77 good to 10A. Other posts indicate bleed currents of less than 1A. I'll check out those relays, but probably won't be until this weekend.

Wow, that should do it!

[smata67]

So I've found out my battery is 4.5 years old. I've talked to someone at pepboys and they say they can prorate based on the date on the battery, so I'll probably bring it in for testing tomorrow and get another. I think I remember having some odd problem just before changing the battery last time and it went away with a new battery, hopefully a fully charged battery will do the trick.

[tomj76]

A Fluke 77 can measure the current directly (as you suggested), or you can also detect current by using the mV range and measuring the voltage at two ends of a wire where a current is suspected. Although wires have a small resistance, the sensitivity of the meter is often enough to detect the voltage drop due to moderate current. For example 50 mA on a 50 mOhm resistance gives a voltage drop of 2.5 mV, which the meter can easily resolve.

I regularly use this method to check that the alternator/generator is charging the battery by putting the positive probe on the alternator output terminal and the negative probe on the battery positive terminal. A positive voltage indicates that the battery is receiving current, while zero voltage or worse, negative voltage, is showing a problem.

[smata67]

I took another look at the battery and the positive terminal is about to break off. It doesn't look like a DIY job to replace this or is it? The crimp onto the feeder wires (the connector is in series with the wire) looks like would need a specialized tool. Job for the dealer? This picture is not of my vehicle, but you can see it does not appear trivial.

I did disconnect the battery from the car in my first attempt to jumpstart the tractor. That did not work, so I reconnected and turned the car on, which worked like a charm. Supposedly, the cable itself can go bad and the removal may have disturbed the insulation and may be causing issues.

[12Ounce]

I typically never use a battery longer than 4 years on my main rides. In fact, Sam's club now includes battery testing as one of their tire and battery services ... they have condemned batteries for me, even before I suspected they might be getting weak. Awfully nice that they also have a very liberal replacement policy.

(I do not own stock!)

[scubacat]

Here in Atlanta the batteries seem to die right around the 3 year mark (both for the windstar and my camry). I think the issue is that batteries with high CCA don't hold up as well during hot summers. I redeem the costco warranty every 3 years and swap them out.

[smata67]

Took the battery to Pep Boys and the battery tester said one cell was bad-- cca about 500. Turns out they had the record of my purchase in 2008, battery was just over 4 years. Not bad for a battery with an 8 year warranty! Anyway, their math must have been way off, as I got a replacement for only $40. It's apparently a $130 battery. I'll see if the battery continues to die overnight, should find out by tomorrow afternoon. The vehicle does seem to use power when off, the "theft" light blinks every 2 seconds.

I found out the battery terminal was starting to go, half of it has broken off. It has two tabs that connect to the terminal, one is cracked. I'm using as is in the meantime and I secured the cable with cable ties to hopefully keep it from splitting the other one. What I'm thinking of doing is breaking the terminal off, drilling an appropriate hole into the resulting tab and using the universal terminal as shown in the picture. Anyone else do this? Seems like it would work well. A replacement harness is $75 and could take a few hours to install, might give this a try instead.