WIRING assistance> Folding Mirror Project

[TunerMaxG]

I found some very helpful threads around that were similar. Here's one thread that is the most similar to my circumstances:

http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=7703

With my situation being different, I was unable to get my answers from the other threads.
This is a long Post, I didn't want to leave anything out, so bear with me to get this started

Here's what I have going on:

I have 2 folding mirrors, the DO have built in limit switches (current switches I think actually but it's not important).
This was good news to find out because it simplifies my wiring.

(I will be uploading the diagrams I've roughly drawn up as soon as I'm home, I cannot upload from this computer)

I have an OEM folding mirror SWITCH too, but no diagram for it so I had to test it out. It seems the following is true for it:

Terminal 1 = Output to Mirror Motor (+/-)
Terminal 2 = Output to Mirror Motor (+/-)
Terminal 3 = Ignition Power +
Terminal 4 = Constant -

There are 3 switch positions with no spring return to neutral. One is FOLD OUT, one is FOLD IN, and then NEUTRAL
Obviously FOLD IN and FOLD OUT alternate consistant power/ground out to the Mirror Motor terminals. And Neutral seems to be isolated completely, this was good news also.


So now you know what I have for a SWITCH and for an OUTPUT already. Here's what I want to acheive:

When I press the LOCK button on my Key Fab, the mirrors fold in.
When I turn the IGNITION to "ON" the mirrors fold out.

I plan to keep the Folding Mirror Switch in the NEUTRAL position at all times during the uses listed above. If it's left in either FOLD OUT or FOLD IN positions on the Folding Mirror Switch, then obviously I could have a Short due to reversing polarities. I plan to fuse/circuit breaker both outputs to the Motor as added protection of course.

What I've considered so far:

LOCK FUNCTION (FOLD IN):
Using a N.O. Latching Relay for the LOCK function. This would allow me to press the LOCK button only once (pulse) but have the mirrors fold in all the way. The issue with this is I don't know how to RETURN the Relay to the N.O. position, I'd assume that I need to run another trigger from the IGN "ON" relay to trip it back to N.O. state BEFORE it sends power the other way. I also though about using a NOTO Relay with a timer around 10 seconds for this function. Unsure if this is best?


IGN ON FUNCTION (FOLD OUT):
This one I'm kind of lost on. At first it seemed simple, a standard SPST relay should work, but this poses an issue with the normal "manual" function of the switch. If the key is in the "ON" position, then the Folding Mirror Switch is powered also. This is an issue I'm not sure how to overcome, because the Folding Mirror Switch is a fairly sealed unit.

Before I suggest ideas on overcoming this, I will rather humble myself, and put it to your suggestions. You likely have a much better and simpler Idea for this issue than I.

To sum up, my issues/questions:

LOCK (FOLD IN) FUNCTION: Need to determine the proper/ideal "latching relay" or "timed/holding" relay, or other suggestion to control pulse signal. Is a NOTO SPST relay with about a 10 second time best?

KEY "ON" (FOLD OUT) FUNCTION: Running a standard SPST relay for this AUX function poses an issue with the normal "manual" function of the switch. If the key is in the "ON" position, then the Folding Mirror Switch is powered also.

I found 1 unit that seems it may work for both functions, but I'm unfamiliar with it:
http://www.smarthome.com/7279/Delay-...ELK-960/p.aspx

And also a bunch of wiring options here, but I'm kind of unsure which suits my application best, if any:
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp#ctm

Of course, your help is very much appreciated. I was hoping to finish this project this weekend, but this electrical hurdle has me scratching my head.

Thanks in Advance guys!

[olopezm]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm trying to picture the connections but the first thing that comes to my mind is you can use an in line relay, triggered by the limit switch, to cut the power to the latching relay for the lock function.

The fold out function would be the same as the fold in, but instead of using the RUN position from the IGN switch, you might want to try and use the START position. That way, the latched relay will be triggered only during startup. Some people will be against this as all current (as much as possible) must go to the starter in the START position but how much current would the mirrors draw anyway? I don't think is that much to cause problems with your starter...

If I think of any other idea I'll let you know.

Oscar.

[TunerMaxG]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Welcome to the forum!

I'm trying to picture the connections but the first thing that comes to my mind is you can use an in line relay, triggered by the limit switch, to cut the power to the latching relay for the lock function.

The fold out function would be the same as the fold in, but instead of using the RUN position from the IGN switch, you might want to try and use the START position. That way, the latched relay will be triggered only during startup. Some people will be against this as all current (as much as possible) must go to the starter in the START position but how much current would the mirrors draw anyway? I don't think is that much to cause problems with your starter...

If I think of any other idea I'll let you know.

Oscar.

Thanks for the welcome Oscar. Great advice. The Limit switch/Amperage switch is actually internal in the motor assembly, so accessing these contacts would require disassembling the motor, and this is something I do not want to due, espsecially considering the window Motor is External and can be exposed to water/moisture. I would rather not tamper with it's seal for obvious reasons.

While this is a great idea, I am afraid I can't utilize it. Perhaps I'm over looking something though?

The idea of using the START trigger rather than the "ON" is a great idea. This would allow me to use the latching relay for both functions right?

A diagram of this would help. for sure. Can't I somehow wire it so that 2 relays work together and are both hooked to the +/- wires to the motor? So that when one trigger actuates the coil engergizes and sends the correct polarity one way, and when the other trigger actuates, the polarity is switched the opposite way?

Would this mean 2 latching relays, and when one is active the other is turned inactive? How do I wire this though?

[olopezm]

Which car will you be installing it on? I'll see if I can find the electric diagram and see if a better idea comes up.

So far this is what I can think of and you only need the RUN position in the ignition switch to either fold in or out the mirrors. All relays are normally open SPDT.

I still need to think how to break the flow of current on the latching relays. Or as I said before you can use the START position to fold them out, the connections would be the same for the fold out part; now we need to figure out how to make them fold in automatically.

Oscar.

[TunerMaxG]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Which car will you be installing it on? I'll see if I can find the electric diagram and see if a better idea comes up.

So far this is what I can think of and you only need the RUN position in the ignition switch to either fold in or out the mirrors. All relays are normally open SPDT.

I still need to think how to break the flow of current on the latching relays. Or as I said before you can use the START position to fold them out, the connections would be the same for the fold out part; now we need to figure out how to make them fold in automatically.

Oscar.

Wow that's an incredible diagram Oscar nice work man. I'm ashamed to post mine now LMAO. I think I may have figured out a way to do it pretty simple, the only thing remaining is figuring out how to make a TIMED relay, so rather than latching relays I can use 2 Timed relays that run for about 10 seconds. I don't know how to hook them up though but I think it can be done with a resistor and capacitor. Still trying to find this answer!

Let me show you everything i've compiled hopefully it helps. First, here is my idea for running everything (minus timed relay component):


om/albums/rr44/tunermaxima3000/03%20G35/JDM%20mirrors/test2withmanualswitch.png

Quick explaination. My plan is to tap into the normal outputs (+/-)that used to go directly to the motor from the manual switch. I will now be using these outputs (+/-) as triggers for the SPST relays (r3 & r4) on the bottom. I figured I can use a diode on the output of these relays in case one of the other relays is activated at the same time.

This way there's no way to screw up and only 4 relays right? have I overlooked anything? I'm very noob at this circuit design stuff I've only done VERY basic work up to this point.

Still need to figure out the timed relays, maybe I should just buy the expensive ones that you can set?

[TunerMaxG]

And as requested here's the additional info you requested:

"2003 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT"
The mirrors though, are off a JDM 2005 Nissan Skyline 4 door (pretty much the same car just the Japanese version. These mirrors are available in Austraulia on the Skyline as well, but I've had no luck getting a diagram from the english speaking crowd Down Under)

Here is the Wiring that will apply from the Infiniti G35 Sedan FSM (Factory Service Manual link: http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/G35/Sedan/2003/)

Relevent pages:







A note, if decided it's best to use latching relays, I can use the UNLOCK signal to disengage Relay #1 (LOCK/FOLD IN). This will work fine methinks. But still would have to find a way to UNLATCH Relay #2 (START/FOLD OUT) after the mirror is done folding out.
This also would mean more tapping into the BCM (Body Control Module), which is very sensitive and expensive I want to use it as little as possible.

More:






having the JDM (OEM) diagram for these mirrors would be priceless, I'd just have to copy it. Looks though as if I'm stuck making it up. Thank goodness for you dudes!

[olopezm]

Hi,

I'm sorry I've been a bit busy.

The easiest way to make a 10 second pulse would be using a monostable non retriggerable multivibrator. The cheapest and easiest would be a monostable 555.
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/555timer.htm#monostable

With this circuit you can either use your design or mine. You'll need one for fold in relay and one for old out relay.

For example, in my design, you can install one monostable 555 between the TRIGGER and each LATCH relay, and wire the TRIGGER relay as suggested. That way the mirrors will fold out when you turn the key before start the car and will fold in when the cylinder is at any position other then RUN. You only need to calculate R1 and C2, R2 and C4 with the following equation for 10 seconds: time period, T = 1.1 × R1 × C1.

I wouldn't mess with the BCM unless strictly necessary and rather use the IGN switch.

Oscar.

EDIT: Sorry, in the diagram you can see VR1 and VR2, and they should be R1 and R2 instead. I uploaded the diagram before correcting it, I took the 555 design from previous projects from college.

[TunerMaxG]

Thanks dude! I'll get some parts together and post back what I come up with. Thanks so much for your help.

In case anyone wants to see the progress, I got LED puddle lights installed, scooped them from Household track light bulbs and retrofitted them in flush:

[olopezm]

You're welcome, let me know if you need anything else!

Oscar.

[Frances728]

It is useful for me!Thank you very much

[TunerMaxG]

My sincere apologies that I never posted back here. I ended up ordering the wrong relays due to poor description, and had a mess-around and a lot of time getting the proper ones in.

BUT I did get them and everything went to plan, works excellently!! Thanks again so much to those who helped here, especially 'lopez', thanks again.

For the specifics and walkthrough, see here:

http://g35driver.com/forums/g35-seda...g-mirrors.html

That walkthrough will apply loosely to anyone with Folding mirrors that want's to use this feature. So if you were like me looking forever on a way to do this, there it is, thanks to the people who helped me here pointing me in the right direction.