Rocker Panel Repairs - Not Doing it!

[1999montana]

Regarding this link: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...t=rocker+panel

I started to remove the rust from the passenger side rocker panel area to see if there was enough left to weld the new slip on universal panels. Nope, by the time I removed the rust; literally crumbling off, there was a hole big enough to shove your head in and no lower flange on the rocker from the 'B' pillar all the way back to the jacking point immediately in front of the rear wheel.

My intention was to create new inner rocker panel pieces and butt weld them to the existing sheet metal (after rust surgery with aircraft snips and air nibbler).

I started to build the inner panels to support the attaching point for the new rocker and stopped, not because I don't know how to do it, but because there is a spot in behind the bracket that mounts the suspension arm from the rear axle to the body that looks like it is open to road dirt and water.

So, says I, how do you seal the rocker up to prevent moisture penetration if I can't seal it up tight? No room to weld between this suspension bracket and the inner rocker.

The new outer panels, by the way, are cost effective. They make mine in Hamilton, Ontario. Bought them for $41.00 each bought at NAPA. This 'universal' rocker can either be slipped over the old and welded in place, or the old metal can be carved out and the new panel welded in.

One problem; they make them 78" long, fits a short wheel base fine. But if you have an EWB, you're at least 7" short. And trust me, the rocker will be rusted badly enough to require replacement all the way to the front fender.

Gotta go out to the garage prime the bare metal and put the van back together so we can take it over to the body shop.

For those craving pictures, I'll add them later today.

[SilverOLDS]

Let us know how it goes. I have to do the exact same job and i have the extended version. More pictures the better!

[spike88]

Sounds like you have a Rocker Panel for Short Wheel base - instead of longer wheel base. And, you need inner rocker panel assembly as well. Having the correct parts (for long wheel base) is the correct repair approach....

As a suggestion, visit 5+ professional auto body shops in your area. My BIL (Brother in Law) owns his own body shop and he can "special order" anything from aftermarket hoods, to full fenders, to lower door panels, to 1/4 fenders, to wheel lips to rocker panels. Perhaps ordering Rocker Panels for your rusted out van might be less hassle than trying to build them from scratch? Simple weld (spot or mig weld) new rocker panels over the rusted out holes, add some bondo over the welded areas and ready for paint. If wondering, he no longer builds panels from scratch. He buys the "patch" he needs and welds in on. Less hassle and in the end, less expensive as well. Not too sure if one can order body panels over the internet. But, using Google Search might be worth trying...

Hope this helps...

[JabbaTHutt]

If I had my way, every GM car I ever owned would be a Chrysler!!!

My father has a chrysler extended van, same year, 2003, as my montana, I can tell you he will never own another one. Only good thing I can say is it has the 3.8 liter engine in it and it gets much better mileage than the 3.4 liter in my montana, he likes mine because it is nice and quiet inside compared to his.

He has had some many problems with it that they try to blame then on someone else doing work on it, only thing he has every had done on it was an oil change out in alberta one time, everything else was done at the dealership he bought it from, they even put on the tires he had for it when it needed new tires, yet he has had warped rotors, locked up calipers, hell they even put the underhood fuse block cover on backwards and it got filled with water and freeked out the computers and it wasn't their fault. I could get a list of problems he has had with it but I don't think there is enough space here for it all.

[spike88]

JabbaTHutt.

GM is aware of under sized front brake rotors on the early GM mini-vans. This is why their 2007+ GM mini-vans now use 6 bolts and much larger size brake rotors. Warp rotors on the older 5 bolt design is common. Especially after a sudden / hard panic stop. Or, from pulling trailer over 1,500+ lbs without brakes under the attached trailer.

GM is aware the 3.4L engine in the early GM mini-vans are too "under sized" as well. This is why they tried a few years with the 3.5L engine. And, they finally upgraded to 3.9L engine. My 2009 Montana van has the 3.9L and its amazing. Lots of "torque" under its hood. Yet, gets better mpgs then our 2003 Buick 3.4L vehicle.

GM is also aware their 2002-2003 3.4L engines used weak intake gaskets (that didn't like Dexcool formula) and 4+ years later, their intake gaskets had to be replaced. And when replaced, a different gasket material is used. GM has learned lots since their early mini-van creation days.

Another area of GM mini-van problem areas is their power sliding doors. Lots and lots of different problems - from electrical to body twisting (which activates the safety sensor) to other problems. This is why our GM mini-van has manual doors. I purposely picked manual doors - to due "problem patterns" with their electric doors.

Another area of problems is their automatic load levelling system. re: Air compressor / air shock system. Problems from electrical, to air shock problems to sensor problems. This is why I purposely looked for NO load levelling system. I installed my own Timbren SES units (which are blocks of rubber that are fitted inside the rear coil springs). Install them and leave them. And, never have to worry about expense load levelling system repairs in the future.

Yes. GM is aware of their GM mini-van design mistakes. This is why their sales "dramatically" dropped after their Astro/Safari line, and why they are no longer in the mini-van market today. One can complain and complain about "older" GM mini-vans as much as one wants. But in reality, GM no longer targets that mini-van market share. Thus, they no longer listen today. GM has other / more important market share areas to focus their ears (and eyes) on.... GM mini-vans (their goods and bads) is now "old news".

Hope this helps in your research as well...

.

[1999montana]

Update: Sorry, no pictures.

The van went into the shop on Monday and they have begun the repairs to the rockers. As a matter of fact, the shop had three identical vans lined up for the same repair.

Thanks for the posts that follow my original.

This repair is critical to the uni body construction. The rocker is actually two pieces sandwiched together to form a 'tube' on the exterior (the part you can see). The inner parts also add rigidity to the uni body and support the door opening and reinforce the jacking points at front and rear.

Finally, there is an outer box that runs the full length of the floor pan parallel to the rocker that closes the whole thing in and adds one more layer to the 'sandwich'.

The rear trailing arm pivot bushing mounts for the trailing arms are mounted on a bracket that is immediately in front of the wheel house and at the rear of the rocker panel. This area is completely open to road salt and crap and it is the root cause of the water damage to the rear of the rocker panels. The body shop boxes this in and closes it up so that it is sealed, as never before. This is the part I could not have done with the limited tools I had.

The repair panels come in 78" lengths to cover the entire length of the rocker from the front to the dog-leg at the rear (the length of the rocker repair panel has nothing to do with SWB or EWB, the panel is universal). The part of the rocker that continues down in front of the wheel well opening is actually part of the rear fender quarter panel (note on your own vehicle(s), the overlap seam and body tape at the rear corner of the sliding door opening).

Hanging a new rocker over the old one is a fix, if all one wants to do is make it look better. But it does nothing to make the vehicle safer, and will only rust out in 1 or 2 years anyway because the root cause mentioned above has not been addressed.

Also, the shop is going to clean up that seam behind the rear hatch (at the top where the roof joins the top of the quarter panels). The seam was rusting and started to leak water into the rear quarter of the vehicle about three years ago. Noticed a small amount of rust perforation at the rear corner of the roof line when I took it in. The shop will cut it back, clean up the area and weld in a new patch.

While not an issue on ours yet, apparently the pinch weld area around the windshield rusts out at the top corners causing the windshield to crack. Anyone with a cracked windshield in the top corners can thank GM for a shitty construction job.

And before the critics come out, I used to work for GM Canada, but I have no loyalty to a company that built such a shoddy vehicle.

Don't get me wrong. I like the van. It moves more stuff than anything I have ever owned; its comfortable, rides nice on the highway and gets better than 8.0 liters/100 Kms (that's about 34 miles per imperial gallon) on long trips. Lots of money spent to keep it running, but in the long run, worth it over depreciation on a new one.

That said, I was never more incensed than when I saw how badly the van was constructed. What were they thinking? Guess they weren't.

Damned rusty GM junk!