abs light on no communication

[big white bufflo]

my wifes 2003 winne abs light came on i looked at all sensors had shop look at it they ran a scan on it came back no communication they looked for blown fuses any ideas will be good

[phil-l]

In addition to checking each sensor and cleaning its connector, did you check and clean the connector that goes to the ABS module? It's probably a long shot, but it's worth checking. See my pictures of checking and cleaning all of my ABS sensor and module connectors; the last 8 pictures in the album are specific to the module connector:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559769331GYPtlJ

In my case, I ultimately decided that the electronic module was bad. I replaced it myself - WITHOUT replacing the hydraulic portion of the ABS system (which means no brake bleeding!). This isn't a casual DIY job - but it can be done. See pictures here:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/575113025YrtncQ

I've included notes with each picture to help you understand what you're seeing.

It's been almost 4 years since I replace the module. ABS has worked fine!

[DontCome2MyHouse]

Originally Posted by phil-l

In addition to checking each sensor and cleaning its connector, did you check and clean the connector that goes to the ABS module? It's probably a long shot, but it's worth checking. See my pictures of checking and cleaning all of my ABS sensor and module connectors; the last 8 pictures in the album are specific to the module connector:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559769331GYPtlJ

In my case, I ultimately decided that the electronic module was bad. I replaced it myself - WITHOUT replacing the hydraulic portion of the ABS system (which means no brake bleeding!). This isn't a casual DIY job - but it can be done. See pictures here:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/575113025YrtncQ

I've included notes with each picture to help you understand what you're seeing.

It's been almost 4 years since I replace the module. ABS has worked fine!

I'm getting ready to replace the ABS ECM in my 2003. I saw a rebuild service on eBay for $50. What size Torx bit did you use? Your pictures are great!

Is it possible to drive the Windstar without the ABS ECM installed (in case I need to move the van around on the driveway)?

[phil-l]

DontCome2MyHouse -

The electronic portion of the ABS module is attached to the hydraulic portion with T-20 Torx fasteners.

WARNING: The Torx fasteners are steel - and the hydraulic unit is aluminum, so electrolysis is practically guaranteed. It's highly likely corrosion will make the fasteners difficult to remove - but it can be done. If you break a head off of a fastener (yeah, it happened to me) don't give up hope. I was able to slide the electronic module off over what remained of the bolt - and then remove it using vice-grip style locking pliers. When reassembling, use anti-seize compound to help prevent fastener corrosion.

Yes, you can drive the van without the ABS electronics in place as long as the hydraulics aren't disturbed - you just won't have ABS (but you're probably used to driving the van without ABS anyway). If - for some reason - you end up driving on the road, I'd wrap the ABS wiring harness connector in plastic to protect the now-exposed pins from dirt and damage.

Please share what you learn when you replace your module! In particular, I'm curious if you can see evidence of how and where they open the module to repair it.

[DontCome2MyHouse]

Originally Posted by phil-l

DontCome2MyHouse -

The electronic portion of the ABS module is attached to the hydraulic portion with T-20 Torx fasteners.

WARNING: The Torx fasteners are steel - and the hydraulic unit is aluminum, so electrolysis is practically guaranteed. It's highly likely corrosion will make the fasteners difficult to remove - but it can be done. If you break a head off of a fastener (yeah, it happened to me) don't give up hope. I was able to slide the electronic module off over what remained of the bolt - and then remove it using vice-grip style locking pliers. When reassembling, use anti-seize compound to help prevent fastener corrosion.

Yes, you can drive the van without the ABS electronics in place as long as the hydraulics aren't disturbed - you just won't have ABS (but you're probably used to driving the van without ABS anyway). If - for some reason - you end up driving on the road, I'd wrap the ABS wiring harness connector in plastic to protect the now-exposed pins from dirt and damage.

Please share what you learn when you replace your module! In particular, I'm curious if you can see evidence of how and where they open the module to repair it.

After further reading...do you think I should pay the $70 and get the ABS codes read by Ford in case it's a bad wheel speed sensor or just go buy the ABS ECM?

Is there a way I could tell if I have a bad wheel speed sensor on my own? I thought I read somewhere the sensor should have a certain voltage (not sure of the number) which would tell you if it's bad.

[phil-l]

Well... I must admit that I didn't bother to get mine scanned. The research I did at the time suggested that scanning in my situation simply reported a bunch of errors that meant my module had failed - just like most of them do. My failure symptoms so closely matched others in my reading that I eventually presumed the module was bad and worked forward from there.

I did spend a fair amount of time cleaning and checking the wheel sensors - but didn't find a reliable way to electrically verify that the sensor's signal is correct. It's likely a digital signal (a stream of pulses from the sensor as the wheel turns), so it's a job for an oscilloscope or other test equipment; a voltmeter probably won't tell you much.

So... I'm not sure I can give you a strong suggestion either way. One frustration: Engine error codes are readily scanned with now widely-available OBDII scanners. ABS codes are read from the same OBDII port - but scanners that also report ABS codes are far more expensive. C'mon - it's just another digital interface and shouldn't be a big - or pricey - deal anymore.

[DontCome2MyHouse]

The rebuilt ABS ECM does not come with new Torx fasteners. What should I do if I break one off? Can they be easily found/replaced?

Will WD40 help remove the old ones?

[phil-l]

A junkyard would be a good bet. Hmmm.... I'm pretty sure I have one or two spare fasteners from my ABS project (if you read the details in my pictures, you'll see I also bought a used module on eBay; it didn't work, but what I learned from it gave me the confidence to buy a new module. The fixup service didn't exist back then). If you need them, send me a Private Message through the forum and I'll send them to you!

If you can spray something in there that can reach where the fastener enters the module, it might help. WD-40 is a marginal penetrating oil; I've had good experiences with PB Blaster, which is widely available at mass-market auto part retailers.

[DontCome2MyHouse]

Originally Posted by phil-l

A junkyard would be a good bet. Hmmm.... I'm pretty sure I have one or two spare fasteners from my ABS project (if you read the details in my pictures, you'll see I also bought a used module on eBay; it didn't work, but what I learned from it gave me the confidence to buy a new module. The fixup service didn't exist back then). If you need them, send me a Private Message through the forum and I'll send them to you!

If you can spray something in there that can reach where the fastener enters the module, it might help. WD-40 is a marginal penetrating oil; I've had good experiences with PB Blaster, which is widely available at mass-market auto part retailers.

Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know how it goes.

[DontCome2MyHouse]

Bad news.

The T20 Torx fasteners are completely corroded. I purchased some PB Blaster and sprayed all four heads of the fasteners thinking that would help...well it made it worse. The PB Blaster completely dissolved the heads of the fasteners. That stuff works too good!

I did manage to get one of the four bolts removed, but I'm still screwed. I called my local Ford dealer and explained the whole situation and the Service guy said he knows exactly what I was talking about and has encountered the same problem with the bolts. I asked him if he could remove the other three bolts and he said they could try, but more often than not the complete unit (electronic & hydrolic portions together) has to be removed and a new unit installed.

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I REALLY want ABS brakes. I'm tired of that damn ABS light too (yes, I know I could pull the 101 & 102 fuses)!

What would Ford charge me for the WHOLE unit? Should I try another mechanics shop besides Ford where they won't try to push me into buying a whole new unit and will actually try to remove the bolts?

I've seen some complete units on eBay, but they are 1998 or 2001...not 2003 like I need.

IF I did buy a whole new unit...wouldn't I just get the same problem again down the road?? It's a flaw in the design of the ABS ECM.

I'm open to any and all suggestions at this point.

[phil-l]

Sorry to hear of the challenges you're facing with this project.

Well, the PB Blaster didn't dissolve anything that wasn't already in tough shape. Mine wasn't as corroded as yours appears to be.

As I understand it, Ford improved the design of the later replacement ABS modules. I expect my replacement module to last longer than the original.

I believe that - if the fasteners can be broken off enough to remove the module - the rest of the fastener could be removed from your hydraulic unit. However, as you've seen, it's pretty difficult to get decent access to the top of the unit while it's attached to the van. Of course, you could remove the whole unit - but this would involve disconnecting a number of hydraulic brake line fittings. If they're as corroded as the fasteners were, that could be a challenge itself. And then there would be the effort of re-connecting the hydraulic lines and bleeding the brake system. The job gets much larger - with more risks.

A data point: I got my ABS electronic module through Team Ford Parts http://teamfordparts.com. They list an ABS control module for a 2003 Windstar (I presume this is both the hydraulic and electronic portions) MSRP price at $1049.52, and their discounted price of $741.17, with a $200 core charge. The previous numbers are for non-traction control models. The numbers are $1327.72 and $937.63 for traction control.

So... I'm afraid I don't have an easy approach for you to follow. I'd at least check in with a well-regarded local independent repair shop to see if they're willing to try to save the hydraulic module. If nothing else, they should have experience with this sort of problem that can guide you to the best solution for your situation.

[DontCome2MyHouse]

Originally Posted by phil-l

Sorry to hear of the challenges you're facing with this project.

Well, the PB Blaster didn't dissolve anything that wasn't already in tough shape. Mine wasn't as corroded as yours appears to be.

As I understand it, Ford improved the design of the later replacement ABS modules. I expect my replacement module to last longer than the original.

I believe that - if the fasteners can be broken off enough to remove the module - the rest of the fastener could be removed from your hydraulic unit. However, as you've seen, it's pretty difficult to get decent access to the top of the unit while it's attached to the van. Of course, you could remove the whole unit - but this would involve disconnecting a number of hydraulic brake line fittings. If they're as corroded as the fasteners were, that could be a challenge itself. And then there would be the effort of re-connecting the hydraulic lines and bleeding the brake system. The job gets much larger - with more risks.

A data point: I got my ABS electronic module through Team Ford Parts http://teamfordparts.com. They list an ABS control module for a 2003 Windstar (I presume this is both the hydraulic and electronic portions) MSRP price at $1049.52, and their discounted price of $741.17, with a $200 core charge. The previous numbers are for non-traction control models. The numbers are $1327.72 and $937.63 for traction control.

So... I'm afraid I don't have an easy approach for you to follow. I'd at least check in with a well-regarded local independent repair shop to see if they're willing to try to save the hydraulic module. If nothing else, they should have experience with this sort of problem that can guide you to the best solution for your situation.

Late last night I found a website that listed an ABS Control Module w/o traction control for $323.85.

Brakes--->Anti-Lock Brakes--->Control Module

https://www.bluespringsfordparts.com...tar-parts.html

First, I don't know it's the whole unit or just the electronic part that sits on top.

Secondly, I'm assuming it's new b/c it's Ford OEM and coming from a Ford dealer.

Let me know your thoughts.

[phil-l]

Yes, I presume it's new. Sadly, part listings like this (it appears they're using the same basic database structure as Team Ford) don't include Ford part numbers - so it's hard to determine exactly what's included without contacting them directly. Call them and see what they say!

[DontCome2MyHouse]

Originally Posted by phil-l

Yes, I presume it's new. Sadly, part listings like this (it appears they're using the same basic database structure as Team Ford) don't include Ford part numbers - so it's hard to determine exactly what's included without contacting them directly. Call them and see what they say!

what is the part number for the entire unit?

[phil-l]

I don't know - but Google should be able to confirm it. There are many idiosyncrasies to OEM part numbers...

When I bought the electronic portion of my unit, I contacted Team Ford directly to verify that I was getting what I expected, and used the part number they specified.