97' Grand Caravan Transmission Vibration 3.3L/4SPD (Passenger side CV axle)

[mrtinker]

Wish I had joined this forum a few months ago! I have a problem with our 97 Grand Caravan, (3.3L, 41TE tranny) Its a vibration that seems to be comming from the passenger side CV Axle.... the transmission side of the universal joint on the new axle.

We started having problems with this in December, I've done most of the work myself but still had the problem... Vibrations that seem to start and get worse at around 35 - 55 MPH. I've replaced rims, wheel bearings, both cv axles, tires, brake pads & rotors, sway bar links and bushings, tie rod ends, (inner & outer) and ball joints. (about $1,200. in new parts & tires)

In April, I finally took it to several transmission shops and talked to the operators.... The shop I chose because I could relate to the owner and felt I could trust him. The wife and I knew it was a vehicle we couldn't replace for the price of a transmission overhaul and when the shop called and told me all was fixed by replacing the new cv axle on the passenger side I was exstatic that the problem would be fixed.... I told him Thanks and to go ahead and rebuild the transmission anyway, (now @ 289,000 miles!) .... The wife and I want to get as many miles out of this thing as we can at this point and our daughter will be driving it to high school next year.

Anyway, I get the car back late on a friday evening.... by the time I got it home I knew there was a big problem.... I put it up on jacks in the garage and saw the passenger side axle was "Slamming" in and out of the transmission!!! I test drove it on a few more short trips and took it back a week later.

About 1 1/2 weeks later I get a call and the shop owner says it is the CV axle thats bad.... AGAIIN??? Lets see, I replaced the original axles. Then "they" replaced both axles after I returned the ones I put in for warranty (Autozone) and now a 3rd axle is bad too? He insists on a different brand of axle (Napa). So when I get the car back, I again am feeling some vibrations.... not nearly as bad as it was before, and put the car up on jacks again.

This time, I don't see the axle slamming in and out of the tranny but I see the vibration comming from the trany side of the CV axle. (passenger side axle again) and I notice some grey goop on the housing fitting that wasn't there before on the trany.... This is when I started having my doubts about the shop and what they are telling me. They just replaced the axle, didn't do anything in the tranny. To beat all, theres now a fluid leak somewhere and its staining the garage floor.

Its been over two weeks now and the shop owner called me to tell me that its again the passenger side axle thats bad and that its a seal somewhere thats leaking so he's gonna have to pull the tranny to get at it. I told him what I saw when I put it up on jacks in my garage.... the vibrating CV axle on the passenger side of the tranny.... He assures me that if it were a bearing it would be making some noises. He's even sent the car to a trusted tire shop and they turned the rim on the tire or something.... he's doing everything he can to make sure the problem is taken care of.

I know what I saw under the car. Just the "passnger side" axle as it is comming out of the transmission housing is moving up/down/around and that's where my vibration is comming from. The end of the axles (tire side) were running true

Can anyone tell me what's involved in repairing the differential side bearings in these tranny's? I'm going fully loaded to the Transmission shop when its ready and I'm going to insist we look at it while its on the rack. I just need to know how to check these differential side bearings.

Thanks Yall!


PS, Sorry for the long post... just feel that this info can help someone like me in the future....

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by mrtinker

Wish I had joined this forum a few months ago! I have a problem with our 97 Grand Caravan, (3.3L, 41TE tranny) Its a vibration that seems to be comming from the passenger side CV Axle.... the transmission side of the universal joint on the new axle.

We started having problems with this in December, I've done most of the work myself but still had the problem... Vibrations that seem to start and get worse at around 35 - 55 MPH. I've replaced rims, wheel bearings, both cv axles, tires, brake pads & rotors, sway bar links and bushings, tie rod ends, (inner & outer) and ball joints. (about $1,200. in new parts & tires)

In April, I finally took it to several transmission shops and talked to the operators.... The shop I chose because I could relate to the owner and felt I could trust him. The wife and I knew it was a vehicle we couldn't replace for the price of a transmission overhaul and when the shop called and told me all was fixed by replacing the new cv axle on the passenger side I was exstatic that the problem would be fixed.... I told him Thanks and to go ahead and rebuild the transmission anyway, (now @ 289,000 miles!) .... The wife and I want to get as many miles out of this thing as we can at this point and our daughter will be driving it to high school next year.

Anyway, I get the car back late on a friday evening.... by the time I got it home I knew there was a big problem.... I put it up on jacks in the garage and saw the passenger side axle was "Slamming" in and out of the transmission!!! I test drove it on a few more short trips and took it back a week later.

About 1 1/2 weeks later I get a call and the shop owner says it is the CV axle thats bad.... AGAIIN??? Lets see, I replaced the original axles. Then "they" replaced both axles after I returned the ones I put in for warranty (Autozone) and now a 3rd axle is bad too? He insists on a different brand of axle (Napa). So when I get the car back, I again am feeling some vibrations.... not nearly as bad as it was before, and put the car up on jacks again.

This time, I don't see the axle slamming in and out of the tranny but I see the vibration comming from the trany side of the CV axle. (passenger side axle again) and I notice some grey goop on the housing fitting that wasn't there before on the trany.... This is when I started having my doubts about the shop and what they are telling me. They just replaced the axle, didn't do anything in the tranny. To beat all, theres now a fluid leak somewhere and its staining the garage floor.

Its been over two weeks now and the shop owner called me to tell me that its again the passenger side axle thats bad and that its a seal somewhere thats leaking so he's gonna have to pull the tranny to get at it. I told him what I saw when I put it up on jacks in my garage.... the vibrating CV axle on the passenger side of the tranny.... He assures me that if it were a bearing it would be making some noises. He's even sent the car to a trusted tire shop and they turned the rim on the tire or something.... he's doing everything he can to make sure the problem is taken care of.

I know what I saw under the car. Just the "passnger side" axle as it is comming out of the transmission housing is moving up/down/around and that's where my vibration is comming from. The end of the axles (tire side) were running true

Can anyone tell me what's involved in repairing the differential side bearings in these tranny's? I'm going fully loaded to the Transmission shop when its ready and I'm going to insist we look at it while its on the rack. I just need to know how to check these differential side bearings.

Thanks Yall!


PS, Sorry for the long post... just feel that this info can help someone like me in the future....

Do you hear any noise from differentioal when you accelerate or deccelerate?? The differential cover can be removed to inspect the gears and bearings. I believe yoiu can remove the differential gears without removing tranny. Remove the left tire and support with jack stands, you will see the cover. To get the ring gear out you may need to lower engine and tranny some.

Did they charge you for a tranny rebuild?? Tranny build does not necessarily mean a differential rebuild.

I would also get another opinion from a different shop.

[b1lk1]

Yeah, I agree that a shop calling a job a "Transmission rebuild" is using a very vague term that can consist of as little as a basic R&R which they disassemble it and then put it back together with all the orignal parts with new gaskets/fluid to when they have to start replacing parts. They do not automatically touch every part and there are many things left untouched such as the valve body and the differential. I have a special hatred for transmission shops since they prey on people that do not pay attention and I'd bet that atleast 1/3 of all vehicles that get a "tranny rebuild" still have the same issues when leaving the shop.

[plymouthsrock]

Sounds like you're on the right track, but if the side bearings are wiped you would think fluid would be pouring out of there. It also might be worth a check to see if the trans mounts are ok (excessive movement when going from D to R and back again), and are centered in their travel.

[mrtinker]

Thanks for the replies everyone....

In responce to your questions, I did replace the transmission mounts. One in front I replaced about 2 1/2 years ago.... I seen it was torn. (I'm thinking from a few months earlier when my wife drove off the driveway of our home, whe was trying to get the kids to stop arguing over something stupid... no damage that was apparant but we had to get a tow truck to pull it out.)

The other I brought with me when I told the transmission shop to rebuild it.... Thats one of the reasons I liked this tranny shop fella.... He didn't hesitate to say he would do it for me while he had it out.

An update today as well.... I'm going to the shop for a road test tomorrow... I insisted that he consider the differential bearings and asked for a concession to replace/inspect them and he told me between $500 -$600 for his shop labor. I'm really alright with the price but what he couldn't assure me of is whether this will "fix" the problem or not? I'm wondering if I should insist on putting in a few more $$$ and just have a new trany instead?

I held my tongue and will hash this out with him tomorrow after the test drive.

I'm still waiting on some definitive responces from you guys on what else may be causing this vibration? I didn't hear any abnormal (bearing or housing) noises from this area but I'm not the expert.... with the engine running and me lying on my back to observe it there's not alot of room to discern that... I'm old anyway and my wife will tell anyone that my hearing really sucks!

At this point "What" could cause just the passenger side cv axle to vibrate badly? If its not the differential bearing then what inside of the differential would need to be repaired to correct it? After the 5th cv axle now I'm positive that that's not it! If it is the differential, can the cv axle be removed and the car run without it in there? That sure would tell us for sure wouldn't it?

Any comments appreciated at this point.... I need a good laugh today!



Thanks for letting me rant y'all !!!

[b1lk1]

No, can't run it without the joint.

Post back with the fix, I am curious. My van has something of a wobble/vibration from 35-45MPH but I pretty much ignore it since it is a Caravan after all, lol. Anyhow, I'm just curious as I am going to need to either rebuild or replace my transmission in the next year or so and I'd love to know what failed.

[mrtinker]

No problem everyone, I'll be sure to update y'all when I have something to tell.

[tempfixit]

I would check the differential pin to make sure it has not moved and hitting the housing.

[mrtinker]

Well I took a test ride today. The vibration is still there.

I asked in three separate analogies why the tires/rims (which havee been replaced now) would be the problem if i observed it without the tires/rims on the axles? I gave him thee keys and told him I want it fixed. When I suggested if he'd rather I take it to another transmission shop he stayed quiet and suggested I am fixated on this being a trany problem while he believes its a tire problem.

I'm going to call on Monday and see what he's decided. I may just take it to another shop if i'm not satisfied.

[plymouthsrock]

Is the vibration load dependent (changes with throttle on or off)? If so, the tires and rims can almost certainly be ruled out, and indicates drivetrain problem. If the tries and rims are suspect, just swapping them to different points on the car will change the symptom.

[mrtinker]

Hey Plymouthsrock, thanks for the the reply !

As far as the tires, wheels go. After the shop did the transmission overhaul and had changed the axles to the NAPA brand, I still felt the vibration. He (shop manager) thought the vibration was the tires/rims. So I went to our usual tire shop (Costco) and they hooked me up with new tires all around. Another $350. this time, although this was a discount after the 70,000 warranty on the old tires kicked in... they only had 40,000 on them.

Do you agree with me that if it were the tires/rims, then the problem would go away if I put the car up on jacks and removed the wheels and put it in drive and got the axles to turn? (The vibration is still there whenever the passenger side axle turns, there's absolutely no vibration if just the drivers side axle is turning.)

It seems like an obvious way to isolate a problem to me.... I can't help but feel like i'm being fed some "B..S..." when he insists its a rim/tire problem now.


Can anyone out there convince me differently?

[mrtinker]

Sorry Plymouthrock,,,, I didn't really answer your question.

As far as my vibration problem goes, I felt it whenever the passenger side axle was turning. I verified this by putting it up on jacks, removing both front wheels (leaving rotors/lugnuts) and used some foam rubber under the axles to keep one stopped while the other one turned. No load I guess you'd call it. What I seen was the passenger side axle shaft where it enters the trany was shaking like hell... causing the vibration throughout the car/steering column. I felt it and I seen it!

I've owned the car since it was new.... nobody is going to tell me this is normal!

[b1lk1]

I do not agree it is tires/rims. I have 4 nearly new Goodyear Integrity tires and I have tried swapping front to back. The vibration has stayed. It is very consistent and always occurs. The post that you necro'd seems to have the most logical answer since it is something of a pulsation and my van did not do this at 120,000KM, it only started the last 10,000KM or so leading me to believe something is wearing out. I do alot of towing with my van, sometimes over 3000lbs and when it is fully loaded I notice this issue less leading me to believe that load does effect it. Unloaded the problem is there and very consistent.

I should add that I do have an outer CV joint that does click under full lock/full load meaning it needs to be replaced/serviced, but the vibration truly feels like it is the powertrain, not a CV joint. I've been a general mechanic for over 20 years and this just does not present as a CV joint/wheel bearing issue. The vibrations you get when those parts are failing are completely different and almost always are accompanied by grinding noises and steering issues which this vibration does not.

As for the tranny shop, I doubt they have the capability to properly diagnose this for you. I believe they are trying their best and trying to rule everything out, but this sounds like it is going to be over their head. I would also be surprised if most dealer techs could figure this one out. I'm gonna talk to a few friends of mine that are master techs and see if they have heard of/know of this problem and I'll post back with any info I can dig up.

[plymouthsrock]

When driving the car on the road, is it worse when you accelerate (or decelerate), or turning corners?

[b1lk1]

For me, the problem only occurs under engine load between the speeds I listed (which I have revised to 35-45MPH). Turning has no effect on the problem and letting off the gas stops the vibration.