Headers?

[blade34609]

Hi,

I have the 90' Civic LX 4 door.
I have already installed short ram intake and soon to have my GT Spec muffler welded on.
I am thinking of my next step and I am thinking the only thing left to do for performance besides a new engine is possibly putting 4-2-1 header on.
The cheapest header I have found is the Pacesetter headers which go for about 130 bucks.
I was told I will lose acceleration but gain top end.
How much hp gains should I expect?
Is it easy to put on?
Will the car sound better?
I cannot afford a new engine right now and since my D15 has onlt 89k on it I still wanna do as much as possible to it now.

Thanks,
Owen

[jeef]

pacesetter = pure crap! don't get them... hell their products have actually been shown to give a loss in power!

and you will loose some bottom end and gain mid-high with a good header, but not necessarly lose acceleration b/c once you're rolling you stay in the mid to high end right????

[Melt]

Originally posted by blade34609
I was told I will lose acceleration but gain top end.

wrong. A 4-1 causes you to lose acceleration and low end but gain top end.

a 4-2-1 increases power on low and mid end therefore increasing acceleration.

From what I have heard pacesetters arent that great ... but dont base shit on me, wait till some other people reply.

The car will sound better and slightly louder with it on.

and its a header not headers, you drive an inline 4 so there is only one ... im bein nice about it cause I know other people love to flame when people say headers, I do it all the time.

[jeef]

melt... you will lose some bottom end... but not as much as if you were running a 4-1... but mid and rop will gain

[Melt]

Originally posted by jeef
melt... you will lose some bottom end... but not as much as if you were running a 4-1... but mid and rop will gain

aight then ... I just know someone with a 97 DX who put a 4-1 on and he said his low end is terrible.

[jeef]

yeah, but if he was pushing out enough gases to warrent a 4-1 his top end should be wonderful... which in racing is where you tend to spend most of the time... but then there is the thing how often do ya really race... so 4-2-1 is a better street choice

[91civicDXdude]

i say get it. I mean seriously, the stock manifold is seriously restrictive. I dont care if pacesetter has a bad rep, it has GOT to be better than the stock manifold. I realize that header design plays a big part in horsepower gains, but cmon, it has bigger primary tubes, is lighter than cast iron, and you can get 4-1 design, which btw, isnt going to make yoru car dog out at low rpm. think about it. a header on a basically stock honda will add about 3-5hp. its not like the car wont take off anymore.

[jeef]

i've just heard way too many horror stories about them being all crappy and rusting out and yada i'd personally and did save up and got the better header, do it once and do it right...

but here is a great comparison of headers check it out.... http://www.hadamotorsport.com/tech/r...emc/index.html

[crx hf]

I say go for it.It cant be worse than your stock manifold.

[PFCfutrell]

I'm interested in buying a header for my '91 CRX SI with a B18A1 swap, I know I have good low end as it is so should I go for a 4-1? Or should I go with a 4-2-1 and beef up what the LS motor is allready good at?

91civicDXdude: If you can knock a few tenths off your 60' you'll be running 9.something 1/8 mile times. I ran a 9.7 or so at 70mph with my stock D16A6 and the run was a 15.3 in the 1/4. My 60' was 2.085 though.

[91civicDXdude]

i was running a DX tranny which grinded horribly. also i had a lot of wheel spin and hop, so yeah, i knew all along that my 60ft was killing me

[PFCfutrell]

That's cool, atleast you didn't have an HF tranny where you'd be going through the traps in 2nd gear!

I used to allways have a couple of SI trannies in the shed but they've all been sold or dealt away I believe. A friend of mine used to have a '90 HF with a D16A6 and an HF tranny, that thing would hold 2n'd 'till 90mph it was crazy.

[bambam89lx]

Here is my 2 cents:
A 4-1 Header will create a better gain on the top end because it is more open for air flow and less restrictive for air flow. At the high RPMs is where the air is flowing faster and more so a 4-1 Header will aid the airflow in the High RPM's therefore gaining a few HP and gaining torque. But, there isn't enough back pressure at the low RPM's so you lose a little. In a 4-2-1 Header, you gain more HP in the Low to Mid range because there is a little more back pressure and it is not wide open like a 4-1 Header. But when you get into the High RPM, it begins to get slightly restrictive not letting the air leave as fast as it would like to therefore you wont see a gain, maybe even a small loss.

I would go with the 4-2-1 Header on our Little Honda engines because our torque and horsepower sucks. You would want to gain at the low end because on all honda engines, max torque is usually at the mid to high RPM's.

A 4-2-1 will help you off the line a little quicker but wont help you while your racing because when your racing you are usually shifting between 6-7K RPM's. Say your racing someone. You have a 4-2-1 header on your 92 civic EX. You will pull off the line quicker than stock. But that's where your gains end. After you get to 6500 RPM's you shift to 2nd. Your RMP's drop down to 4700. SO you see, that 4-2-1 Header won't help you out any more down the race. Only at Red lights. But the 4-1 Header will do the opposite. It won't help you off the line, but you will be able to accelerate a little quicker at the High RPM (where most racing is at.)

So if you are a daily driver:4-2-1
If you race at every red light: 4-1

Hope that helps. And that concludes todays lesson boys and boys.

[91civicDXdude]

first off, all backpressure is bad. 2ndly, if you are racing, if you have a manual transmission, you are probably not taking off at very low rpm anyways. and the reason 4-1 makes more top end power is because of the design itself and how the cylinders come together in teh collector. Its all about scavenging.

Also, its better to make power in the upper rpms to take advantage of gearing. and honda engines make all their power in mid to upper rpms, low rpm doesnt mean a thing. i mean seriously, "losing low rpm power" isnt abad thing because you gain it up top. and its not as if your car will bog down and die when you take off because you are "losing so much low rpm power".

4-2-1 header is good for a nice even power band and minimal gains. 4-1 is for maximum high rpm power. The only reason i didnt buy a 4-1 header when i got my DC 4-2-1 is because a 4-1 has longer primaries and my 4-2-1 scrapes on the ground as it is, a 4-1 would be smashed flat by now from driving up my horrible alley

[91DXsedanJoe]

I agree with the scavenging concept....but not with the statement that the presence of backpressure is bad. It depends on how the engine is set up, what type of cam is has, and if it is forced induction or not. Also, if one is going for a little backpressure , they need it from the muffler, not the manifold (hence getting a header). with something like a flowmaster muffler, one wants it to produce the scavenging, as well as the backpressure. just a thought......