Car shaking and making knocking sounds when accelerating

[SulkierLizard]

Hey guys, I have a 2000 Grand Prix Se 3.1L with around 143,000 miles on it. I just my wheels balanced, but my car will shake randomly when riding. It also makes a knocking sound sometimes (not a lot) whenever I accelerate. I have yet to get it aligned properly after installing a tie rod end. :/ Is it possible that it's out of align that is causing these problems or something more severe? Thanks guys!

[jml755]

Originally Posted by SulkierLizard

Hey guys, I have a 2000 Grand Prix Se 3.1L with around 143,000 miles on it. I just my wheels balanced, but my car will shake randomly when riding. It also makes a knocking sound sometimes (not a lot) whenever I accelerate. I have yet to get it aligned properly after installing a tie rod end. :/ Is it possible that it's out of align that is causing these problems or something more severe? Thanks guys!

Don't know much about the 3.1L, but could be injector or coil pack. Does it throw any diagnostic codes? Doubt the tie rod end is the problem. If you got it set close to the old one, any deviation would most likely show up as uneven tire wear, not shake the car. However, I just had a speed sensor wire break ('01 GTP) on my pass side wheel bearing that caused violent shaking but the ABS and TRAC lites would come on. Replaced wheel bearing, problem gone. A severely out of balance wheel will shake the car (snow or mud packed into the wheel or lost rim weight) But a "random" event is probably not a tire balance problem.

I replaced my injectors, coil packs and plug wires around 100k. If you haven't done yours, you're due. Also could be one of the myriad sensors out of whack causing the computer to get confused. OBD scan is a good place to start.

[SulkierLizard]

Originally Posted by jml755

Don't know much about the 3.1L, but could be injector or coil pack. Does it throw any diagnostic codes? Doubt the tie rod end is the problem. If you got it set close to the old one, any deviation would most likely show up as uneven tire wear, not shake the car. However, I just had a speed sensor wire break ('01 GTP) on my pass side wheel bearing that caused violent shaking but the ABS and TRAC lites would come on. Replaced wheel bearing, problem gone. A severely out of balance wheel will shake the car (snow or mud packed into the wheel or lost rim weight) But a "random" event is probably not a tire balance problem.

I replaced my injectors, coil packs and plug wires around 100k. If you haven't done yours, you're due. Also could be one of the myriad sensors out of whack causing the computer to get confused. OBD scan is a good place to start.

I have a very cheap OBD-II scanner that I could try. I don't think it will show it any codes, though. It's not very violent when it shakes. It feels like I'm getting a slightly intense massage in my seat. It's kind of random. I've noticed that it happens most often when I'm going around 50-60 MPH and around 1800-2100 RPM. I can hear the knock increase when I barely step on the gas a little bit, but when I give it any more on the gas then it goes away. I can feel a slight pulsing in the gas pedal and a little bit in the steering wheel when it happens, too.

[jml755]

If you're not showing any codes, could be a bearing or CV joint. I had just replaced a R/F wheel bearing and the rack-and-pinion on my '01 GTP in the last couple of weeks. Daughter told me last nite that the car was "shaking again". It had a very,very mild vibration after the mentioned work, so I took a test drive last nite and wow, the "minor vibration" is now a pretty severe shaking especially during acceleration. Also a "ticking noise". I threw it in neutral and revved the engine. Engine sounded and felt pretty smooth, no severe shudder while coasting in neutral either. Figure that means drivetrain. Especially since I'm not lighting up the service engine indicator with codes. I had replaced the L/F wheel bearing a year ago, then remembered this: The CV joint boot clamp had come loose on the Left side at some point and was just sitting around the spinning shaft. I had noticed it when I did the R & P last weekend and thought I had pushed it back on. May have come loose again and this may be the "ticking" sound. And if it's been off for some time, I imagine that the CV may be damaged. Kind of makes sense and the only think else in the drivetrain would be transmission so I'm going to replace the CV joint this weekend as it's the cheapest first step ($70). Symptoms seem more pronounced when turning right which also indicates problems on the left side as that's where the forces get exerted in a r/h turn.

[sohc_vtech]

its mostly likely your clutch, junk not even worth fixing trust

[GTP Dad]

This certainly sounds like a CV joint. They will vibrate around 60 mph and you will certainly feel it in the seat of your pants. Also if they are going bad they will make a knocking noise. I would have both shafts checked by a mechanic.

[jml755]

Update on the "shaking" Grand Prix. Replaced the driver's side CV joint on Saturday. It WAS the problem, one of the 3 bearings on the inner spider was gone. Figured the job would be a piece of cake as I've done the wheel bearings and Rack & Pinion previously. Instructions are pretty straight forward. How hard could it be?

The ball joint didn't want to come out of the knuckle due to the severe angle it was at in it's lowermost position, so I raised the knuckle by jacking under the rotor but the outward pressure kept the ball joint stud in place. This is one of those jobs where an extra pair of hands would help. Finally pried between the two and the tower sprang outboard pretty quickly . Glad I wasn't right up against the rotor or I'd have an imprint of the wheel studs on my chest. I considered removing the wheel bearing as I recall there was plenty of slop in the CV joint movement without the bearing in place and it appeared it would come out if you turned the steering wheel in the opposite direction.

But with tower out of the ball joint, a little wrestling with the CV joint and it popped out. Oops, Inner housing was still in the trans. The inner boot clamp was missing (probably causing failure of the joint by letting grease out, water/dirt in). Prying out the housing took a little bit of time as there was no room to get a pry bar and a small screwdriver wouldn't do it. Doesn't help that the back of the spider housing is not flat. Ended up sliding a piece of 1/2" steel about 4" long behind the housing and tapping the end of it with a small hammer. to put leverage on the housing and it popped right out (after 20 minutes of scratching head, cussing/swearing, looking for slide hammer, other tools, etc).

Installed the CV joint into the trans and into the wheel bearing and then started to wrestle with the shock tower again. The "push-back" from the bellows of the now-installed CV joint kept forcing the tower outboard while I tried to line up the ball joint stud. Another case of needing 2 pairs of hands. Then I saw a big 10" C clamp on my bench. I stuck one end on the inner lip of the fender wheel-well and the other end on the strut body and it pulled right in, in a very controlled manner. (The gap in the strut mounting bolt flange is perfect for the C clamp to fit securely.) As I pulled the knuckle inboard with the clamp, I could jack it up under the rotor (re-installed temporarily for a jacking point) to clear the ball joint stud and when it was high enough, the stud slipped right into the knuckle.

I also replaced a broken stabilizer link on the driver's side while everything was apart. Put the tie-rod back on, torqued everything up.

One concern I had was that there was fluid leakage when the CV joint came out. I had feared that the shaking/vibration had damaged the seal. After looking at a parts drawing of the trans, I realized the lip seal in the trans is around the CV female spline shaft on the inner joint, not the trans output shaft. So it would make sense to lose a little fluid when the CV joint comes out. Topped off the trans fluid and there doesn't appear to be any leakage, but I'll still monitor it.

Hate to have to pull the CV joint AGAIN to replace a seal. Anybody done one of those? It appears that you could pull it out with slide hammer and small L-shaped tip, but I don't know how easy it would be to install a new one.

Anyway, don't know if there was an easier way to replace a CV than above but I'd like to hear if there is. All total, I think it took about 3-4 hrs, but I don't work super fast and I do a lot of looking and planning before I put a wrench to something I've never done before. If I did one again, I'd think I could do it in an hour or so.

[rickisrad]

the time it calls for is about 0.9 hours in alldata. but your first time and not having professional tools will definately add a bunch of time. a 4lb mini sledge hammer and a big hit would get the ball joint loose from the knuckle as well as the tie rod. you will loose a little fluid when you pop it loose from the trans. and air hammer with a point adapter will get it out of the wheel bearing. axle nut torque is about 125 ft lbs if I remember correctly.

[jml755]

I may test that 1 hr estimate on the right side soon. Thinking about putting new ball joints on since it's got over 130k miles. Hope to tighten up the suspension close to a "like new" condition as I hear a slight "clunk" sometimes when I go over a bump in the road especially at low speed. Since I've done the shocks already, figure the joints are a likely culprit of the noise. Opinions? And if I've got everything apart on the right side, might as well thrown in a new CV joint. Only things left would be the bushings until I've got an (almost) brand new front suspension. And for another $40 or so, I could replace all of those. Still beats a car payment.

[rkvons]

Originally Posted by jml755

I may test that 1 hr estimate on the right side soon. Thinking about putting new ball joints on since it's got over 130k miles. Hope to tighten up the suspension close to a "like new" condition as I hear a slight "clunk" sometimes when I go over a bump in the road especially at low speed. Since I've done the shocks already, figure the joints are a likely culprit of the noise. Opinions? And if I've got everything apart on the right side, might as well thrown in a new CV joint. Only things left would be the bushings until I've got an (almost) brand new front suspension. And for another $40 or so, I could replace all of those. Still beats a car payment.

Lock the steering wheel and jack up car to get the wheel off the ground. Grab it at 9 and 3 and try to wiggle it. Mine was clunking when I did that and it turned out to be the outer tie rod end.

[jml755]

Thanks, but I just replaced the entire Rack & Pinion with new tie-rod ends a couple of weeks ago. Anyway, not sure what kind of life to expect out of Ball Joints, but at 130k, it's a relatively cheap thing to do. (<$100)

[rickisrad]

Originally Posted by jml755

Thanks, but I just replaced the entire Rack & Pinion with new tie-rod ends a couple of weeks ago. Anyway, not sure what kind of life to expect out of Ball Joints, but at 130k, it's a relatively cheap thing to do. (<$100)

you might want to buy new control arms that way you have the new ball joint and ca bushings. commercial price is about 60 bucks, not sure what retail is though. easier than ginding out the rivets in the old arm.

[jml755]

Yeah, I'm considering doing the entire CAs instead of the pieces, but I'm kind of soured on getting the "cheap" stuff and the MOOG CAs are almost $100 ea. Bushings and Ball joints are really the only wear items on the CAs, the steel arms are fine.

So it's a matter of saving $60 or so and a few minutes with a drill or die grinder. Kind of a toss-up but if I stop and think long enough, I'll probably end up spending the extra $$ and save some cussing, swearing and knuckle busting.

Working on this car has been a PITA lately.

Last nite I spent an hour or so trying to unplug the LH/FRT drain hole on my sunroof. Water was dripping through the overhead console during rains and I found that water was not getting down the drain hole. Tried to snake it with a wire and small tubing, blow it out with air. Finally removed the door trim trying to find the drain tube that comes down the A-pillar. Lying on my back all contorted trying to look for the tube in the A-pillar or rocker panel. Then I looked up and see the drain tube coming out of the door jamb by the hinges.

Put the air hose in the hose by the door jamb and blew it out from that end. Now it drains ok. .

[rickisrad]

The dorman LCAs will work just as well as moog. if you want to get fancy the w-body store sells heavy duty performance LCAs, a bit more expensive though.

I had a sunroof on my 97 and had problems with it, I made sure my 04s did not have them. I never opened it anyways.

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by SulkierLizard

Hey guys, I have a 2000 Grand Prix Se 3.1L with around 143,000 miles on it. I just my wheels balanced, but my car will shake randomly when riding. It also makes a knocking sound sometimes (not a lot) whenever I accelerate. I have yet to get it aligned properly after installing a tie rod end. :/ Is it possible that it's out of align that is causing these problems or something more severe? Thanks guys!

i got a 93 and had to replace harmotic balenser it knock loud. one thing you can try is take belt off and move your balanser with your hands and see if it knocks just move it back and forth you'll be able to tell if it's your knock.....

good luck.....