Power steering pump question

[tempfixit]

98, 3.0 engine, 207k

I tool the serpentine belt today to check at idlers, ps pump and ac pulley bearing.

I installed a new belt couple weeks ago (Carquest cheaper belt, I believe it was gates belt) Yesterday I started hearing a squeak again.

My question is: When checking the ps pump, there wa no play up and down but when I pulled on the pulley it moved towards the passenger side fender. It should not move outward correct??????

thanks

[olopezm]

A small play in the shaft (in and out) is normal, as far as you have no leaks you should be fine.

Oscar.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by olopezm

A small play in the shaft (in and out) is normal, as far as you have no leaks you should be fine.

Oscar.

Thanks olopezm, no leaks but growls when turning. I have flushed with turkey baster several times. I need to giqure out where the noise is coming from and it does increase with rpm. I have replace idler pulley and water pump also. I will probably repacing tensioner pulley next.

[olopezm]

Growls when turning the wheels or turning the pulley?

The bearing on the pulley might be going bad, use a needle and put some oil on it, and see if it goes away.

Best regards,

Oscar.


EDIT I'm sorry about the TSB I was thinking you had a 2000 Windstar, the TSB only applies for 99 and newer, my bad...

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Growls when turning the wheels or turning the pulley?

The bearing on the pulley might be going bad, use a needle and put some oil on it, and see if it goes away.

Best regards,

Oscar.


EDIT I'm sorry about the TSB I was thinking you had a 2000 Windstar, the TSB only applies for 99 and newer, my bad...

Oscar, it growles when turning the wheels. I will try oil on the bearing. Maybe I will take the belt off and start the engine and turn the pulley to see if it growles then but I probably will not be able to get it turning fast enough. The strut on the passenger side does sweak when turning the wheels in colder weather. I have read the tsb 02-13-2 which could be affecting the amount of pressure on the ps pump. It has growled snce the day she got it from her daughter. I should change the struts and shocks also as they are weak. I could stick all lot of money into this van. Have finally gotten 700 miles on without the check engine light coming on. It was a Florida and Virgina vehicle so it is not rusted out.

thanks

[olopezm]

If the problem is when turning the wheels then I don't think oil on the bearing will help. Ask an assistant to turn the wheels while you take a look at the steering reservoir, if you hear the grunting and the fluid starts to look foamy you might have a pinhole leak causing air to enter the system. It happened to my lincoln and the problem was on the return line, same symptom...

Take a look at the TSB I just uploaded, it may have something to do with the other noise... Hopefully the TSB you read and this one might be the solution!

Oscar.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by olopezm

If the problem is when turning the wheels then I don't think oil on the bearing will help. Ask an assistant to turn the wheels while you take a look at the steering reservoir, if you hear the grunting and the fluid starts to look foamy you might have a pinhole leak causing air to enter the system. It happened to my lincoln and the problem was on the return line, same symptom...

Take a look at the TSB I just uploaded, it may have something to do with the other noise... Hopefully the TSB you read and this one might be the solution!

Oscar.

Oscar did you need to add fluid to the reservoir with the pinhole? I never need to add any fluid. I will also get a assistant to turn steering wheel and watch. I have read the TSB you posted also. The noise I hear other than the ps pump noise pertains to the TSB 02-13-2 bulletin.

thanks

[olopezm]

Normally you would, but in my case there was no need; the noise kept driving me crazy.

Another thing could be a loose clamp, loose enough to let air enter the system (the flow causes some vacuum) but still tight to keep fluid from leaking.

Also Ford pumps are known to make noises...

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Normally you would, but in my case there was no need; the noise kept driving me crazy.

Another thing could be a loose clamp, loose enough to let air enter the system (the flow causes some vacuum) but still tight to keep fluid from leaking.

Also Ford pumps are known to make noises...

Oscar I had the wife turn the steering wheel from side to side today as I watched the fluid. I did not notice any foaming in the resorvoir. The other noise I heard yesterday seems to have quit since I removed the serpentine belt and tested all compotents. I am thinking the moving of the ps pump pulley towards the fender and back towards pump has made the difference.

[olopezm]

Good to hear that!

Maybe the serpentine belt wasn't properly installed causing the pulley to "bend" a little or the other option is the fluid might be a little old (with some debris in it), when was the last time you replaced it?

If it has been long it would be a good idea to flush the system and put some fresh fluid in.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by olopezm

Good to hear that!

Maybe the serpentine belt wasn't properly installed causing the pulley to "bend" a little or the other option is the fluid might be a little old (with some debris in it), when was the last time you replaced it?

If it has been long it would be a good idea to flush the system and put some fresh fluid in.

It has been about a week since the last time I used the turkey baster and emptyed the reservoir and had done that a number of times before that, maybe a little over a quart of new fluid. I plan on doing it again tommorrow. There is not a screen any place in the system that can plug up is there?

[olopezm]

No, there isn't any that I know of.

For the next time you flush your system you could make it easier by removing the return hose from the reservoir (normally the smaller diameter or the top one) and crank your engine (disable the fuel pump or ignition system so it doesn't actually starts) until the flow stops, then you can start pouring fresh fluid and you'll be sure the system has been totally flushed and you don't have old with new fluid mixed.

In some cases the pump might get air locked, if that's the case there will be no flow of oil to the pump and the steering will be hard as can be... to get rid of it just crank the engine a few times and you should be fine, if it still doesn't helps fill the steering reservoir to the top, start the engine and turn it off again (5 seconds should be enough).

Best regards,

Oscar.

[grog11]

The windstar power steering reservoirs have a screen built into their design at the bottom part of the fluid reservoir. The screen can and does plug up with the coating from old fluid over time, closing the holes to restrict flow, partially or entirely. This can allow a minimum flow to the pump and also effect the cooling flow rate, causing the pump to overheat along with steering rack seals.
There is a cure however. You would need to remove the reservoir from the vehicle, and then be able to see the screen clearly. You would then pour acetone, or any good solvent spray cleaning the holes in the plastic molded screen. I had good luck filling the reservoir with acetone and swish it around thru the screen. After you are done with the cleaning, reinstall the reservoir, hoses, etc. and fill with new mercon V. I used mobile 1 synthetic atf because I think it takes much more heat than conventional fluid.
If after reinstalling, and starting the engine, you find you still have a growling, there is a tsb that calls for applying vacuum to the reservoir cap opening while running the engine. This will actually burp any stubborn air bubbles that are stuck in the rack, or pump area causing the cavitation sound you are hearing. A MityVac hand pump would work, I did not have one available, and just stuck my shop vac on the reservoir top, moved the air bubbles, and the entire unit became quiet as brand new. Good Luck.

[tempfixit]

Originally Posted by grog11

The windstar power steering reservoirs have a screen built into their design at the bottom part of the fluid reservoir. The screen can and does plug up with the coating from old fluid over time, closing the holes to restrict flow, partially or entirely. This can allow a minimum flow to the pump and also effect the cooling flow rate, causing the pump to overheat along with steering rack seals.
There is a cure however. You would need to remove the reservoir from the vehicle, and then be able to see the screen clearly. You would then pour acetone, or any good solvent spray cleaning the holes in the plastic molded screen. I had good luck filling the reservoir with acetone and swish it around thru the screen. After you are done with the cleaning, reinstall the reservoir, hoses, etc. and fill with new mercon V. I used mobile 1 synthetic atf because I think it takes much more heat than conventional fluid.
If after reinstalling, and starting the engine, you find you still have a growling, there is a tsb that calls for applying vacuum to the reservoir cap opening while running the engine. This will actually burp any stubborn air bubbles that are stuck in the rack, or pump area causing the cavitation sound you are hearing. A MityVac hand pump would work, I did not have one available, and just stuck my shop vac on the reservoir top, moved the air bubbles, and the entire unit became quiet as brand new. Good Luck.

Wife is gone with the van now so I can not go look at what it atkes to get resorvoir off. grog11 did you have to take the pump off the engine to take resorvoir off or can it stay on engine?? Also do you know the tsb number for the bulletin your are referring to???

thanks

[grog11]

Here is the tsb, but it is for a 99 and up reservoir. Your 98 may be different, as the reservoir is directly on the pump I think. You should be able to put a oil dip stick, or small dowel in the reservoir and feel if the bottom is flat where the screen would be, or you can probe all the way into the power steering pump assembly. Either way the vacuum procedure I would highly recommend. To remove an attached reservoir, you would have to remove the pump assembly from the engine 1st.

17744 1999-2003 WINDSTAR - POWER STEERING NOISE
SOME 1999-2003 WINDSTARS MAY EXHIBIT A HIGH LEVEL OF POWER STEERING NOISE DUE TO AIR INGESTION AND/OR AIR BEING TRAPPED IN THE STEERING SYSTEM. IF THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF A FLUID LEAK, PERFORM THE 'POWER STEERING SYSTEM PURGING' PROCEDURE USING A VACUUM TOOL (WORKSHOP MANUAL SECTION 211-00) AND FILL THE RESERVOIR TO THE 'MAX FILL' LINE. FILLING THE RESERVOIR TO THE 'MAX FILL' LINE WILL ENSURE PROPER FLUID VOLUME, WHICH WILL REDUCE THE POSSIBILITY OF AIR INGESTION INTO THE SYSTEM DURING LONG AGGRESSIVE TURNS. AVOID OVERFILLING, AS IT MAY RESULT IN LEAKS FROM THE RESERVOIR. FOLLOW NORMAL DIAGNOSTICS FOR ANY OTHER POWER STEERING ISSUES.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 04/27/2004

FORD:
1999-2001 WINDSTAR
ISSUE:

Some vehicles equipped with a 3.8L engine may exhibit a "grunt" noise while turning. This may be caused by the original design power steering hose or by air trapped in the power steering system after hose replacement.
ACTION:

Replace the power steering pressure hose with service hose YF2Z-3A719-AA. Perform the evacuation and fill procedure per the 2000 Taurus Workshop Manual procedure.
SERVICE PROCEDURE

NOTE:
GRUNT IS DEFINED AS A LOW, LOUD, RUMBLING HYDRAULIC NOISE AND SHUDDER THAT OCCURS DURING TURNING OF THE STEERING WHEEL.

1. For vehicles with a grunt noise, install Power Steering Hose (YF2Z-3A719-AA) to correct the noise. This service hose includes a pulse suppressor that requires all air to be removed during fluid fill of the system. Refer to the appropriate model year Workshop Manual for removal and installation details.
2. Replacing the power steering pump or gear will not result in correction of the grunt noise in the steering gear. Do not replace pumps or steering gears as an attempt to repair a grunt noise.
3. The service hose is intended to correct the grunt noise only. Do not use this service hose to try to repair any other power steering condition.

NOTE:
ANY AIR LEFT IN THE SYSTEM WILL RESULT IN CONTINUATION OF THE GRUNT NOISE AS WELL AS OTHER NOISES (I.E., "MOAN" OR "WHINE" FROM THE POWER STEERING PUMP). REFER TO THE FOLLOWING NOTES FOR THE PROPER POWER STEERING SYSTEM FILL PROCEDURE.
4.
FLUID LEVEL FILL PROCEDURE

Refer to the 2000 Taurus/Sable Workshop Manual, Section 211-00 for the power steering fluid fill and evacuation procedure.
NOTE:
THE TIME REQUIRED TO BLEED AIR FROM THE POWER STEERING SYSTEM USING THE VACUUM PUMP MAY TAKE LONGER THAN THE SPECIFIED 5 MINUTES. IT MAY TAKE SEVERAL TIMES OF PERFORMING THE EVACUATION PROCEDURE TO REMOVE ALL OF THE AIR FROM THE SYSTEM. THIS MAY TAKE UP TO 1/2 HOUR TO PERFORM. BE SURE TO PULL OVER 68 KPA (20 IN/HG) ON THE GAUGE WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING WHILE EVACUATING THE SYSTEM.

NOTE:
ONE WAY TO CHECK FOR AIR IN THE SYSTEM AFTER EVACUATION PROCESS IS TO MARK THE FLUID LEVEL ON THE POWER STEERING RESERVOIR PRIOR TO STARTING THE ENGINE. IF THE FLUID LEVEL DROPS WHEN THE ENGINE IS STARTED, THERE IS STILL AIR IN THE SYSTEM. REPEAT THE BLEED PROCESS UNTIL THERE IS NO FLUID LEVEL DROP EVIDENT IN THE RESERVOIR. AN ADDITIONAL CHECK FOR AIR IN THE SYSTEM IS TO INSTALL THE VACUUM PUMP ON THE RESERVOIR, START ENGINE AND DO NOT TURN STEERING WHEEL, THEN SLOWLY PULL VACUUM TO BETWEEN 68-85 KPA (20-25 IN/HG). IF THERE IS STILL AIR IN THE SYSTEM THE PUMP WILL MOAN BEFORE YOU REACH 68 KPA (20 IN/HG). IF THIS MOANING IS HEARD, REPEAT THE BLEED PROCEDURE UNTIL YOU CAN GET TO 68-86 KPA (20-25 IN/HG) WITH NO MOAN.