Brake light and traction control issue

[Tinovolpe]

I have a problem with my 2001 Taurus SEL instrument panel brake light coming on and staying on sometimes for days. When it's on my traction control doesn't work but sometimes while it's on the traction control light will illuminate for a few seconds and then after that the brake light will go off. Conversely if it is off and the traction control kicks in (we've had a ton of snow here) then the brake light comes on and the traction control gets disabled.
I've checked the brakes, they look ok. Fluid is good, no leaks I can see. Parking brake switch seems to work fine. Car seems to brake fine. I've searched the web and have come across posts of people with similar problems but the answers and discusion confuse me. What I would like to know is:

Can it be one of the ABS wheel sensors or ring. If so how do I know which one?
Can it be the ABS control module?

Can it be an actual mechanical issue with the brtakes. I've been doing my own brake jobs on Taurus's forever.
Can it be a bad fluid level sensor.
Can it be a bad fuse or a ground wire issue.

Sometimes the light will stay on for days. Sometimes it will stay off for days and sometimes it is off but when I turn the car back on it comes on. Seems completely random, i can't seem to correlate it any one pattern.
I took the car in and the mechanic couldn't find anything wrong with the braking system and there were no codes to be found BUT I don't know if he used the right software for the ABS codes and of course he couldn't get the stupid light to come on when he had the car.

On a not so related note, is there anyway to changed bulbs on the instrument cluster without pulling the cluster out. I have at least 3 bulbs out and it sucks.

Thanks!!!!

[shorod]

A standard scan tool will not work with the ABS system, it needs to be either a specific scan tool for the brakes or a professional grade scan tool.

The issues you describe really could be due to any of the items you note, however I don't think a faulty brake fluid level sensor would cause the ABS to not work. My guess would be either a wheel speed sensor or a problem with the Hydraulic Control Unit. I'm not totally sure of the specifics for your 2001 model year Taurus, but usually the system will perform a self test after the car is started. That may explain why sometimes the light does not come on right away after you start the engine. And the problem could be as simple as a weak charging system or a loose/dirty connection.

The easiest way to diagnose this would be to get an ABS scan tool and see what direction the codes point you.

As for changing bulbs in the instrument cluster, sorry, you need to pull the cluster. The good news is that's not all that difficult, at least not when you hands are warm.

-Rod

[Tinovolpe]

Thanks Shorod. I was trying to avoid taking the car to a ford dealer who obviously has the correct scan tools for the job but that may be my best option. Before I do that I'll check for obvious signs like damaged sensors or loose wiring even though I kind of did that already although it wasn't that thorough as it has been so freaking cold up here that working in the garage is just painful. Where is SPRING!!

[shorod]

There may be some larger independent shops that have a scan tool that can scan the ABS system. You might also be able to purchase an Actron ABS BrakeScan scan tool for less than the dealership would charge to read the codes, plus you'll have the tool for future troubleshooting.

As for testing the sensors you could test them quite reliably with an oscilloscope if you happen to have access to one of them. But if the sensors all test fine you're still stuck needing to know what the code(s) is/are pointing to.

-Rod

[Tinovolpe]

You make a good point The diagnostic probably would cost me some coin that I'd be better off investing in my own instrument. Would that model work on a dodge as my wife's car is a Durango. That would help justify it.

[shorod]

You'll need to check the compatibility list to know if it will work on the Durango. I don't have the BrakeScan but rather a professional scan tool that access all systems.

-Rod

[Ruley73]

Originally Posted by shorod

You'll need to check the compatibility list to know if it will work on the Durango. I don't have the BrakeScan but rather a professional scan tool that access all systems.

-Rod

You son of a gun! I could've used that tool a couple weeks ago. Oh well, my issue is fixed now. Get this: a new EGR valve on my wife's 2007 Chevy Equinox got rid of the check engine light (was throwing code P0404) along with the "SERVICE STABILITRAK" and "SERVICE TRACTION CONTROL" warnings. Who'd a thought???

As far as the OP's issue goes, without knowing anything else I'd guess some debris (such as salt/ice) might be stuck in one the the ABS reluctor wheels or one of the wheel speed sensors or harness going to one of said sensors is bad.

I had an issue like this a few years ago on my wife's Olds Intrigue and it turned out to be a corroded harness due to a missing weatherproof seal. I cleaned it up a bit, sprayed some silicone spray on it, and put a new seal on it that I got from a junkyard and the problem went away. I don't know how much of this would apply to a Taurus since most of my knowledge is in GM vehicles. I presume it would still be relevant though.

A couple other less likely suspects would be a bad ABS relay or bad brake pedal position switch.

[Tinovolpe]

Thanks everyone!!

I ordered the scan tool. Got it from Amazon for 93.00 and free shipping. Not too bad. It doesn't cover my wife's 1999 Dodge Durango unfortunately but I didn't feel like looking further.

I took off the front wheels this weekend to look at the wheel sensors but didn't see anything unusual. Tried to take off the sensor but I need a torx socket which I didn't have and it was frozen in place solid so I soaked them in WD-40 and will pick up a torx socket set next week.

Hey I did notice something troubling when I was looking at my sensors. On the left drivers side to the left of the wheel assembly is a mount. I think it's the transaxle mount. It looked in bad shape. The two halves were literaly offset. I pulled out my trusty Haynes manual (not so trusty for me as it has not enough detail and tries to cover too many model years) and it says that on 99 and later models the engine and transmission have to be removed from the bottom of the car to change this where on earlier models it can be done simply by jacking the engine up. Is this possible because if so that is out of my league and I can imagine it will cost a fortune to have it done.
Someone tell me this isn't true.
Anyway as soon as I get my trusty scanner I'll let everyone know what I uncover.

[Tinovolpe]

Well I got my scanner. All excited I read the manual did the setup plugged it into the port under my dash and.......................I get a communication error!!! It can read anything off the computer. I came that close to flinging the thing into the yard!! Sent an email to Actron technical service but I'm sure they'll come back with the same suggestions that are in the troubleshooting guide. I checked the fuses again. Also checked the wiring as best I can. Can this mean the ABS control module is dead?
By the way now the brake light stays on all the time. Also I noticed no traction control ligtht or abs light on dash when I start the car.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by Tinovolpe

Well I got my scanner. All excited I read the manual did the setup plugged it into the port under my dash and.......................I get a communication error!!! It can read anything off the computer. I came that close to flinging the thing into the yard!! Sent an email to Actron technical service but I'm sure they'll come back with the same suggestions that are in the troubleshooting guide. I checked the fuses again. Also checked the wiring as best I can. Can this mean the ABS control module is dead?
By the way now the brake light stays on all the time. Also I noticed no traction control ligtht or abs light on dash when I start the car.

If you're not getting a bulb test for the ABS and traction control, that may mean the module is dead.

You might want to check for power to the module power lines though before condemning the module.

-Rod

[Tinovolpe]

This morning when I started the car the traction control light did come on and the brake light stayed off, until I backed out of the driveway. Then the brake light came on again and stayed on the whole ride to work.

If the module was dead would that explain why the scan tool can't communicate with it?

Where excatly is the module anyway?

[shorod]

If the module were dead that would explain the lack of communication, but would not explain the function of the ABS light.

To be clear, is it the red Brake light that is coming on or the yellow ABS light?

-Rod

[Tinovolpe]

It is definitely the brake warning light ,not the ABS light.

By the way I contacted the tech service for the scanner about the communication problem and they told me to try a different model year or try putting in the Windstar? Go figure.

This saga just keeps getting better and better.

[shorod]

Hmmm, if it's the red brake warning light rather than the ABS light, have you checked the brake fluid level and condition of the brake pads to make sure all is okay there? I don't really understand the tie between the red Brake indicator and the traction control system. On Infiniti cars this combination would point to an electronic throttle issue, but I don't think Ford is quite that cryptic.

-Rod

[Tinovolpe]

I did check the fluid level and it is at the top. I just did the brakes a few months ago, new rotors, drums, and pads. No leaks, wheel sensors are all clean. The issue did start after my last brake job so I don't know if there is a connection. However when I start the car, if the traction control light lights up then I know the brak light will go out, and it does. If the traction control light doesn't lioght up then the red brake warning light will stay light. I'm pretty sure it's the same for the ABS light however I have to confirm that. Haven't been able to check it. Tricky catching all those lights on start up.

By the way I followed the instructions the scanner tech gave me. I tried several different model years with no luck. And the 9449 model scanner doesn't even give me an option to choose Windstar. I'm going to go back to him and ask him if this condition means the module is dead. I do want to check power to the module. Can you tell me where it is?