Tires wooble

[Ralph50]

Hello all, I have spent alot of time trying to figure out if I have a problem. Just bought tires, Firestone Firehawk indy 500. To compare to my old Pirrelli I raised the front of the car and put into drive. I see the tread woobling left to right about 1/8 of an inch on both tires. Convinced that this would eventually wear suspension components out, I went back to Firestone and had them install the FR710. Now I raised the vehicle and the tires are going left to right but also up and down about 1/8 inch. Now for the question. what is acceptable? The old Pirrelli's ran true.
Firestone says there all good, but I cant believe them.
2000 Buick Lesabre 15 inch
Comments welcome.

[maxwedge]

Is the runout in the wheels, tires or mounting hub, this is crritical to what you ask, get them off the car and spin them on a wheel balancer to see what is actually doing this.

[Ralph50]

I have not checked the vehicle. When I checked the old pirelli's about a month ago they were not out of spec left to right, they ran true. I dont think I bent them in one month, I am the only driver. The new 710 are exibiting different problems the right one on front is running true L to R but the left is going L to R plus up and down. I also drove on Eway, no shake to 66mph, shake 67 to 71 then no shake at 72 and up. The firestone dealer is just treating me like I dont know anything. They just say its balanced, good to go. As one internet site quoted "you can ballance a football it still wont roll correct.
I am trying to get my money back under the firestone 30 day buy and try option. Problem is that they said they would only install my own tires but they took my tires so I was forced to get the FR710.
I checked all the firestone/bridgestone tires on tirerack.com and I dont want any other tire they sell.

[imidazol97]

Originally Posted by Ralph50

I have not checked the vehicle. When I checked the old pirelli's about a month ago they were not out of spec left to right, they ran true. I dont think I bent them in one month, I am the only driver. The new 710 are exibiting different problems the right one on front is running true L to R but the left is going L to R plus up and down. I also drove on Eway, no shake to 66mph, shake 67 to 71 then no shake at 72 and up. The firestone dealer is just treating me like I dont know anything. They just say its balanced, good to go. As one internet site quoted "you can ballance a football it still wont roll correct.
I am trying to get my money back under the firestone 30 day buy and try option. Problem is that they said they would only install my own tires but they took my tires so I was forced to get the FR710.
I checked all the firestone/bridgestone tires on tirerack.com and I dont want any other tire they sell.

Buy a set of Michelins.

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by imidazol97

Buy a set of Michelins.

Well somewhat correct, not all Michelins run well on every vehicle. I had a similar problem with the top of the line Michelins for my vehicle. After far too numerous tire balancings, at several different locations, (one place put little beads like buckshot inside the tire) I read about road force balancing. I got it done and the car ran like silk. Michelines are great, but not always problem free.

[imidazol97]

Originally Posted by polarzak

Well somewhat correct, not all Michelins run well on every vehicle. I had a similar problem with the top of the line Michelins for my vehicle. After far too numerous tire balancings, at several different locations, (one place put little beads like buckshot inside the tire) I read about road force balancing. I got it done and the car ran like silk. Michelines are great, but not always problem free.

Fully agree. Michelins are round. And they roll round while under the crush weight of the car. A tire can be round on the spin balancer, but when weight is on it, the tire and sidewall crush a different amount in different spots. So the wheel is essentialy rolling out of round.

Some vehicles are more sensitive to those slight up and down movements due to uneven rolling. In my 1977 factory service manual for the Cutlass, they showed using a device to measure for out-of-round rolling on tires, so it's not a new phenomenom. The Road Force Balancer has made it very curable.

[xs03mich]

CAll Leslie tire on the east side, they are over in your area. See if they can road force balance the tires. The Waterford Leslie tire shop has a road force machine. They charge ten dollars a tire to road force balance. That should help with the tire problem. Spin balance on tires is not so great at times. I always road force my tires, I have found it to really improve the ride. Hope it helps you.

[Ralph50]

Follow up and solution.
Took the tires back to the Firestone dealer under the 30 day try and buy. They said, do you have your old tires, and I said, no you have them. The sales manager says, he cant put old tires on my car. So imagine this, my car is on the hoist, and he says "I will put another kind of tire on". Im thinking no way, this is too much trouble I just want my money back. I left and called the dist mgr, we aggreed that I could bring back just the tires. I went to Belle Tire, Chesterfield, MI, and installed Michelin Harmony. The technican called me out to the shop, and we both watched every tire balance, and I was able to watch the tread as he spun it. The tire was pretty true in all directions. What a big difference at the steering wheel. No shake at all, and the car feels smooth. Im very happy I stood my ground, and took those Firestone junks back. I did some research and found that if a tire is out of wack, especially roundness it will not run smooth no matter how you balance. As one per put it "you can balance a football shaped tire it still wont ride smooth" Firestone just thinks if it balances, the tire is ok and must be me. I will never buy Firestone tires again. Also, the Firestone dealer tech put 4,,, .75 oz weights all on the same side of wheel, 2 inside and 2 outside. Everything I read said no installer will let this go, they should have remounted the tire 180 deg and rebalanced, very poor balancing. My final words of senseless wisdom; if you can, have the guy spin the wheel while balancing and watch the tread spec is total movement 3/64 inch. Dont buy cheap tires. Dont believe tirerack.com reviews.

[ricebike]

seems they have a bad tire technician at that firestone...

[Ralph50]

Update almost 3 1/2 years after this original post.
Tires have been great, still have the car, still runs smooth, these have been great tires.
Buy Michelin.
No I don't work their.

[cooped70]

Im leaning towards catalatic converter.

[Blue Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Ralph50

Update almost 3 1/2 years after this original post.
Tires have been great, still have the car, still runs smooth, these have been great tires.
Buy Michelin.
No I don't work their.

Since Bridgestone absorbed Firestone I wouldn't even consider their product again after trying two sets of their offerings. I've had/have numerous Michelin/Goodrich (same company) tires with no defects, problems, or complaints. They just seem to have it figured out. Maybe it's because they also make aircraft tires (like Goodyear) or because they actually have as much concern over their product quality as their profit margin (even though good quality should ultimately generate profit), but for whatever the reasons they get it done right.

[Tech II]

Well, there are tire places and there are tire places......

Did the machines have a record of inspection for balance displayed?.....Tire balance machines in tires stores, take a bigger beating because they are used more, than say, in a dealership garage.....they should be regularly checked.....

Second, who is doing it? Some guy they trained 15 minutes ago? The fact he had huge weights on both sides was an indicator......fact it vibrated in a certain mph window, is classic imbalance....

Quality of tire.....I have seen "belt shift" in brand new tires.......you tell a customer he needs 4 tires.......you balance all 4....but in one of the tires, you see definite run out......you get another tire, you don't give it to the customer, especially in a tire shop.......

I have seen all kinds of crazy things over the years........tires with fix a flat in them.......over inflated tires for better gas mileage.....non matching tires, that caused the "low tire" light to come on......three good tires, and one bad one.......cupped tires due to lack of rotations........getting new tires, while having bad front end components.......alignment problems......front bearing problems......

[la1]

I didn't want to say anything till you mentioned you are not going to by Firestone tires again. We have used Goodyear tires for the last oh 50-60 years. We once, well twice got Firestone and we experienced a blow out with both sets. Yea could be the tires were made incorrectly, the belts inside or chords or whatever. I think I remember hearing something about that. Wasn't it Firestone a few years back that was experiencing all those blow outs on SUV's?

[rkvons]

The only Firestones I ever owned were on a brand new 1977 Corvette. They were recalled.