Power Steering (and more?) HELP!!

[TineTheVA]

I really, really hate to be posting this...but...here goes!

First things first: 1997 Grand Prix regular 3800 engine (fairly certain anyway; it's sitting in front of a gas station right now so I can't go look )..anyway...

I had power steering noises (for a while now...I know). To really just cut to the chase; stopped on my daughter on Friday night, jumped, battery would not hold a charge...went to check it out with my neighbor last night and when we opened the hood, the serpentine belt was off the system (not sure what the "systems" proper name is...pulley system?) and one of the gears (one of the things the belt rotates on (over?) was loose (in fact, he took it out with no problem).

I know it's not the alternator gear, I know it's not the engine gear??? I am fairly certain it is the power steering gear...(been trying to find a picture and cannot)...it's one of the gears that is grooved (they all are not - I think there were two gears that are grooved, one smaller and one bigger....the loose one is the larger of the two...does that help?)

This is why I am here, yet again, you all are so very knowledgeable and I need help bad!

My thing is I always want to know what I am looking at and talking about when I go to shops (I am in no way a DIYer when it comes to car repairs), but at least I can be knowledgeable when I walk in!

1. What is (or could be) the problem?
2. What's the best case scenario? i.e. problem, cost, etc.
3. What's the worst case scenario? same as above.

Any help, pictures if you need more info (I have none right now...if someone just has a picture of what I am talking about I can point the parts out)

I appreciate it in advance!

Thanks,

Tina

[TineTheVA]

I found a diagram that looks very much like my set-up (fairly sure anyway - hope this shows up!) And if so, it is the power steering gear (is that the right word?) that is loose. Does this help any?

[gonesouth]

It's difficult to know exactly what's wrong with any certainty, but based on your description, I'll give it a try.

First, any wheel driven by a belt is a pulley. So all references will now be pulleys.

You stated that the power steering had been making noise. I'd ask if you had checked the power steering fluid level, but on the 3800, it's way down on the back side of the engine and very difficult to access, so I'll assume you did not. Odds are that the pump may have been very low on fluid and may have frozen up. If your neighbor was able to reach in and take the pulley off, the pump needs to be replaced. Pulley too. And the belt is probably gone also. Auto Zone prices are; Pump $80, Pulley $20, Belt $30. Depending on the shop's labor rate, I'd say your looking at another $150-200 for labor. There may be a charge for power steering fluid too.

That's your best case scenario.

Other possibilities are that the belt tensioner failed. That's an $80 part, more labor and antifreeze.

Your battery not charging is probably due to the belt not turning the alternator pulley, so you should be OK in that area.

The tensioner pulley may have failed. It's a $15 part.

You didn't mention any overheating. If the belt failed, the temperature gauge should have gotten above normal. So I'll assume the water pump is OK.

This is all speculation. I can't tell exactly without seeing it. Good luck and I hope it is a low cost repair.

[TineTheVA]

Thanks gonesouth!

So, in your opinion (without seeing an actual picture of things) is, best case scenario about $280 to $330...WOW! That hurts!

You're right, I kept wanting to add fluid. but never did (those darn long funnels...never went and bought one...have the fluid here though..)

I am about to have it towed to a shop so this is very timely.

I think I am going to meet the tow truck there and take a picture and post it here.

1. Could you tell from a pic if all that is wrong?
2. Is there a possibility that some of it did not happen? OR
3. Does all that stuff "always" happen at the same time?

Thanks again!

Tina

[gonesouth]

1. Could you tell from a pic if all that is wrong?
2. Is there a possibility that some of it did not happen? OR
3. Does all that stuff "always" happen at the same time?

Thanks again!

Tina[/quote]

1. I won't be able to tell 100%, but it will help. Include pictures of the pulley that came off, the belt and a picture of the engine. The engine picture would be best if it was taken by you standing by the passenger side front tire.

2. Yes, most likely it's only the pump, pulley and belt. But I can't be positive.

3. Usually, it does not all happen at once. I just presented some scenarios that could be a problem, just to prepare you for the very worst case.

Accessing the power steering pump reservoir is a real pain on the 3800. And it does require a long, very thin funnel. I have changed my pump on my Bonneville, and actually, it wasn't that bad of a job. Hopefully, yours won't be too bad either.

[TineTheVA]

Thanks again gonesouth!

My daughter (OMG) had used up my memory on my phone w/pictures of nothing! But I managed to save 1 of the engine and the general area the pulley is in so here goes:

This one shows the engine:




This shows the general area where the loose pulley is located: NOTE - I tried to pull the pulley all the way out and it would not come out all the way, but it is definitely loose. Not sure if it would not come out because the space was too tight or if something was holding it in the part. From further observation, it is definitely the larger pulley with grooves in it. Underneath and a little toward the back of the car in relationship to that part with holes?? in it (white with the small grooved pulley sticking out). You can see the smooth pulley there too; the "one" is lower and in back of that smooth one too.




Here is a picture of the whole belt that is off:




Close-up of the same belt:



It is at the shop now. No word yet, but having your opinion before they call me would be great!

Thanks again (can't say it enough!)

Tina

[gonesouth]

The pictures helped. You said the loose pulley was lower and towards the back. That would be the power steering pump. The fact that it is that loose and you can pull it out makes me think the bearing in the steering pump is ruined. The way the belt is frayed on the edge tells me it was running out of alignment and possibly rubbing on something else.

I'm pretty sure my first thoughts were correct. New power steering pump, pulley and belt. I gave the Auto Zone parts prices, so you pretty much know what to expect. Labor cost is the only thing in question.

This what I think from pictures and description. It could be something else, though I doubt that.

Sorry it couldn't have been something cheaper.

Anybody else want to offer an opinion?

[TineTheVA]

Again gonesouth...THANK YOU!

I believe you have it on the nail and it will be all three parts + labor. Still no call, but I will update here when I get the word.



Tina

[TineTheVA]

REPAIR UPDATE:

So the car is fixed! Thank God! They replaces the PS pump and pulley and the serpentine belt.

I don't know the cost yet because my (God sent angel) of a neighbor paid for it upfront! I'll have to pay it back, but on a payment plan and he has not even told me how much yet...OMG he is the best.

I am assuming around the $280 for the repairs (he did say "something like that") and an additional $55 for the tow.

Again, thanks gonesouth....your help made me feel comfortable and I knew they could not give me a snow job because I was knowledgeable!!

Until the next time...(I mean it is a 1997!!!) take care!

Tina

[gonesouth]

Originally Posted by TineTheVA

REPAIR UPDATE:

So the car is fixed! Thank God! They replaces the PS pump and pulley and the serpentine belt.

I don't know the cost yet because my (God sent angel) of a neighbor paid for it upfront! I'll have to pay it back, but on a payment plan and he has not even told me how much yet...OMG he is the best.

I am assuming around the $280 for the repairs (he did say "something like that") and an additional $55 for the tow.

Again, thanks gonesouth....your help made me feel comfortable and I knew they could not give me a snow job because I was knowledgeable!!

Until the next time...(I mean it is a 1997!!!) take care!

Tina

Glad I could help and you're welcome. Now a few more things to do.

Buy that long skinny funnel and check the fluid, maybe twice, over the next few weeks. If there is a little air in the system, your fluid level could drop.

Wear a long sleeved sweatshirt if the engine is warm. Don't even try it if it's hot.

Make sure you get the reservoir cap on tight. If you're not comfortable doing that, ask a neighbor to help. After the cap is installed, start the car and look under for leaks.

Bake your neighbor a pie or buy him a pizza. Sounds like a nice guy.

gs

[TineTheVA]

gonesouth,

That's funny...I was just brainstorming what to do for him and cook was definitely on the list!! Thanks!

Thanks also for the tips on what to do with the car next! I'm on that!

Lastly, let me tell you how good you are (as if you don't know )...the repair cost....drum roll....$286!!!! You said $280 for what was done! Awesome awesome!! That kind of help is PRICELESS!!

Tina

[TineTheVA]

UGH! Ok so the car is down again. Daughter driving it...starts smoking into the car through the vents and from under the hood.

I have her check the temp and it's in the "Hot" zone. I have her check the coolant, first time, she says its low, so she buys some (she was at the auto parts store when this happened). But when she goes to put it in, now the level looks good.

She goes to start the car and it starts for a sec, steering is tight again.

I ask her to look at the serpentine belt and lo and behold, she says "It looks shredded and loose, like its about to come off"....

OK, do we think this is faulty work and the shop needs to get it right this time? Or could it possibly be something else that I will have to pay for.

Car getting towed back to the original shop today! As I said before....UGH

[gonesouth]

Originally Posted by TineTheVA

UGH! Ok so the car is down again. Daughter driving it...starts smoking into the car through the vents and from under the hood.

I have her check the temp and it's in the "Hot" zone. I have her check the coolant, first time, she says its low, so she buys some (she was at the auto parts store when this happened). But when she goes to put it in, now the level looks good.

She goes to start the car and it starts for a sec, steering is tight again.

I ask her to look at the serpentine belt and lo and behold, she says "It looks shredded and loose, like its about to come off"....

OK, do we think this is faulty work and the shop needs to get it right this time? Or could it possibly be something else that I will have to pay for.

Car getting towed back to the original shop today! As I said before....UGH

Don't hit any panic buttons......yet. Let the repair shop take a look and give their opinion.

Tell us what that opinion is!

It's possible they received a defective pump. They gave that car back to you in a 'repaired' condition that lasted, 8-10 days. Let them explain it first. We'll go from there.

[TineTheVA]

Hi gonesouth!

OK...I'll stay clam and wait! I'll definitely let you know what they say within the next few days!

Appreciate the help again!

Tina

[TineTheVA]

Here goes:

They say it is the Tensioner & Tensioner Pulley now

Admits they should have checked that last week so the new Serpentine belt is on them

Total cost = $265

Your thoughts/Advice???

Thanks!

Tina