Americans renounce the Patriot act

[taranaki]

American cities across the nation are showing their objection to the Patriot Act.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Da...iot020701.html



Resolution passed by Hawaiian Senate

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessio...lls/scr18_.htm

[Venger10]

I guess if you're not a terrorist , you got nothing to worry about.....seems pretty simple

[taranaki]

welcome to the politics forum Venger....


It would be nice to think that if you aren't a terrorist,Mr Bush's policies will do you no harm.Unfortunatelythis is not the case,as hundreds of Iraqi civilians could tell you if they hadn't been inconviently rendered deceased.

On the domestic front,the Patriot Act quietly overrides fundamental chunks of the U.S. constitution dealing with the rights of citizens as individuals.Geore Bush has already shown his contempt for human rights and international law by re-classifying prisoners of war held at Guantanamo Bay as 'detainees'.Mr Bush has declared that the war is over,unless these prisoners of war can be charged with any offences,they should ALL be released IMMEDIATELY.

Remember,if Mr Bush can bend the rules to flout international law,he can just as easily bend them to defend his dubious empire against his own citizens.

[Milliardo]

Very true, tara. I am amused that some people here think it is paranoid to be suspicious of Bush's actions. But we here have experienced Martial Law--we saw how something that might be good in the short run was abused as time went on. And we saw how the very same laws meant to supposedly protect the people were used against it. That is why even now it is a warning that Americans should not give Bush a second chance at the office. As tara said, if he had the temerity to flout international laws, to supposedly justify America's actions, how much more can he use domestic laws to serve him, and his cohorts', purposes? Yet blindly do Americans do not realize this, very high are they in victory. Bush has made the American people amenable to his demands, so I wouldn't expect much opposition from that people anytime soon.

[Venger10]

Don't get me wrong , I'm no Bush fan..... We'll see how long the empire lasts , the people still have the right to speak:...so far.......

I've got my own theories concerning our governments involvement in 9/11 and everything thats happened since then:alien2:

[Venger10]

Originally posted by Milliardo
Very true, tara. I am amused that some people here think it is paranoid to be suspicious of Bush's actions. But we here have experienced Martial Law--we saw how something that might be good in the short run was abused as time went on. And we saw how the very same laws meant to supposedly protect the people were used against it. That is why even now it is a warning that Americans should not give Bush a second chance at the office. As tara said, if he had the temerity to flout international laws, to supposedly justify America's actions, how much more can he use domestic laws to serve him, and his cohorts', purposes? Yet blindly do Americans do not realize this, very high are they in victory. Bush has made the American people amenable to his demands, so I wouldn't expect much opposition from that people anytime soon.

This is goin a bit off topic , but I see you must be a Gundam-Wing fan also...

[Milliardo]

Originally posted by Venger10
This is goin a bit off topic , but I see you must be a Gundam-Wing fan also...

We have a lot to talk about Gundam Wing--and anime. ^_^

Anyway, back on topic, somewhat: I am interested on what you said about the U.S. government's involvement on 9-11. What are they?

[Venger10]

Originally posted by Milliardo


We have a lot to talk about Gundam Wing--and anime. ^_^

Anyway, back on topic, somewhat: I am interested on what you said about the U.S. government's involvement on 9-11. What are they?

Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER......... Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....

[Milliardo]

Originally posted by Venger10
Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER......... Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....

PM me about it. I think I have a feeling what you're trying to say here.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by Venger10


Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER......... Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....

This forum welcomes contributions from any angle.The right to free speech is worthless if you don't use it.Can't guarrantee that everyone will agree with you,but the whole purpose of this forum is for members to get a better understanding of the enormous range of perspectives.Feel free to speak up,your contribution is valuable and should be respected.

[Venger10]

Originally posted by taranaki


This forum welcomes contributions from any angle.The right to free speech is worthless if you don't use it.Can't guarrantee that everyone will agree with you,but the whole purpose of this forum is for members to get a better understanding of the enormous range of perspectives.Feel free to speak up,your contribution is valuable and should be respected.

The right to free speach is nothing but a myth , no government would ever allow itself to be openly disrespected by its own citizens....
Certainly here in the US , the general population has no clue what is going on , nor really do they care...They have been told that these measures passed and actions taken since 9/11 are for their own protection , and most of them beleives it.....And the one's that don't , are labeled and placed in a filing cabinet for quiet disposal later , or caused to be discredited and labeled as "nuts" or "AntiAmerican"
I hate to think of how this all is going to turn out , but no one but a few will realize until its too late....


Just my .03:alien:

[texan]

Originally posted by Venger10
The right to free speach is nothing but a myth , no government would ever allow itself to be openly disrespected by its own citizens....
Certainly here in the US , the general population has no clue what is going on , nor really do they care...They have been told that these measures passed and actions taken since 9/11 are for their own protection , and most of them beleives it.....And the one's that don't , are labeled and placed in a filing cabinet for quiet disposal later , or caused to be discredited and labeled as "nuts" or "AntiAmerican"
I hate to think of how this all is going to turn out , but no one but a few will realize until its too late....

This sounds familiar. And completely untrue.

Give me an example of the US government preventing the free speech of it's own citizens at any time since 9/11. BTW, do you not realize that the very freedom you call a myth allowed you to type that without fear of government reprisal?

I am a vocal opponent to the Patriot Act, I haven't been filed away into some corner. Neither has the ACLU or any of the people in the above links.



I also welcome your input to this forum and it's debates, but you will be challenged on your points and expected to back them up with fact.

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by Venger10


Like I said...its a personal theory , but given the state of the world we live in , I think we (the U.S. citizens) are involved in the biggest snowjob EVER......... Of course....conspiracy theories abound , and most people would call me crazy.....

I love the conspiracy theorists. Its like a good fiction novel.

[Venger10]

Originally posted by texan


This sounds familiar. And completely untrue.

Give me an example of the US government preventing the free speech of it's own citizens at any time since 9/11. BTW, do you not realize that the very freedom you call a myth allowed you to type that without fear of government reprisal?

I am a vocal opponent to the Patriot Act, I haven't been filed away into some corner. Neither has the ACLU or any of the people in the above links.



I also welcome your input to this forum and it's debates, but you will be challenged on your points and expected to back them up with fact.

Examples of disallowing free speech?? How about the severe reluctance to allow anti-war demonstrations and the MASSIVE police presence at the ones that were allowed....makes the ones from the 60's look like a Free-for-all...
I'm not convinced that some government flunky is NOT surfing this very board as I type , looking for more serious threats than I.....

And no ...you haven't been filed away ...yet , and neither have the others... But the more dangerous , respected people have been marked...trust me...

And yes...conspiracy theories make good stories , lets hope all we have to do is READ about them......:alien2: :bandit:

[Prelewd]

Originally posted by Venger10


Examples of disallowing free speech?? How about the severe reluctance to allow anti-war demonstrations and the MASSIVE police presence at the ones that were allowed....makes the ones from the 60's look like a Free-for-all...

Were these the same type of protests as something like.... the WTO protests?