Another 2k clear Problem+Questions...

[gtziaf]

Hello again,
This is my first attempt to a 2k clear...



As you see I got a lot of orange peel (it seem lik a lemon to me ) .
The 2k clear are from Zero...
I use an iwata eclipse with extra 0,5 needle, I spray it with 20 psi.
Also I mix 2k 100% clear, 50% hardener and 20% thinner.
The base color are zero 's giallo modena... (sprayed 1 month before)
And the quenstions...
1) This is usual?
2) Can restore them with sanding and rubbing?
3) If yes, what sand paper number to start?
4) How many days to start sand...
5) Whats the problem for this orange peel (needing more thinner - zero says 10%-25% in instructions)
6)Any suggestions very-very welcome

Waiting for answears, Thanks a lot for your time...

[mattbacon]

Very not usual... I've had no issue with Zero 2K.

It _looks_ like it's drying (or at least gel-ling) before it hits.

Is it very hot where you are, now? Maybe you need to over-thin, to compensate for faster air-drying.

Did you spray the first "mist" coat (almost a matt effect) first, and then wait a few minutes before going for the "wet" coat? That mist coat makes the surface very finely rough, so that the later "wet" coat is "sucked" flat by capillary action.

The thing with 2K is that it has a lot of solids, so you can't rely on it to flow and self level unless you a)put the mist coat on first, and b) use almost enough for it to start "running." It'll take a LOT "wetter" wet coat than pre-mix or spray-can lacquer without running, in my experience.

Do it right, and it really shouldn't NEED sanding...

HTH...
bestest,
M.

[gtziaf]

Thanks for your reply...
I spray the mist and 5 min later the first wet coat... Ten min later the second wet coat...
I leave in Greece so its hot, but I spray early in the morning...
Maybe this is not help..
With regards

[stevenoble]

I think you could add more thinner. I use sometimes as much as 40-50% thinner. So a typical mix would be 10ml clear, 5 ml hardener and 4 or 5ml of thinner. You can also spray it very wet and it will not run, it just stays where you put it. Sometimes I do one final coat where I add even more thinner to the remainder of the first mix, maybe another 1ml. I then apply this mix and it levels the whole thing perfectly. I used that method on my Suzuki Hayabusa build and it worked fantastic.
Also, although I'm not sure it has made a difference I think the wait of one month between colour coat and clear coat is too long. You can clear it after 20-30 mins if you are using Zero basecoat colours. Only time I leave it longer is when it's a metallic, but even then only overnight drying at most...

[stevenoble]

Originally Posted by gtziaf

Thanks for your reply...
I spray the mist and 5 min later the first wet coat... Ten min later the second wet coat...
I leave in Greece so its hot, but I spray early in the morning...
Maybe this is not help..
With regards

Not sure about hot weather, maybe if there is a lot of moisture in the air and it is humid. I always bake the 2K in the Mr Dry Booth oven, so heat actually helps the finish level and go smooth in my experience.

[Didymus]

Originally Posted by stevenoble

I think you could add more thinner... You can also spray it very wet and it will not run, it just stays where you put it.

Yep, I fully agree with both Matt and Steve on both counts.

The chances are that the paint isn't thinned enough. Believe it or not, I mix three+ parts thinner to one part 1k urethane color coat, and it sprays out smooth and opaque (the opposite of transparent).

Actually, a similar problem can be caused by using hardware store lacquer thinner. It can make the paint curdle, which produces that kind of rough finish. Use medium temp reducer that's intended for automotive urethane paint. But if that's what you're using, the problem is almost certainly caused by too-thick paint. Or spraying from too great a distance. And Steve's absolutely right on the waiting time, too. Urethanes dry fast, really fast.

Many of the old rules-of-thumb don't apply to the newer paints. Synthetic lacquers (Tamiya spray-can) and automotive urethanes like your 2K are very different animals.

These new paints are designed so they don't tend to sag or run. Sounds too good, but it's true. I've found that the only thing that suffers from too-thin urethane paint is coverage. Too-thick, on the other hand, will a produce a pebbly, orange-peely finish like you got on the spoon. So... too thin is better than too thick.

If the finish on your car looks like that spoon, I think it's a waste of time to try to sand it smooth. I'd strip and start over. As both Matt and Steve have said, it shouldn't need any sanding at all.

Unfortunately, one of the downsides of 2K urethanes is that they are very tough and hard to strip. I don't know what to suggest in that department, since I only use 1Ks, which are easier to remove.

Good luck!

[gtziaf]

Thanks a lot for advices and answears...
Very usuful, all...
I try to do better next time...
One more quenstion, how can strip Urethanes and 2k clears... Its an option...
Thanks again...

[turbothirtytwo]

I have similar problem as yours when I started to use 2K. what I have learned is to add more thinner to have paint like when u thin normal acrylics or so.almost like milk consystency. and u should spray it very close to subject(maybe around 3cm from kit) and with fully open trigger coz this paint is thick.spray it with slow motions.dont be afraid of runs. and u can strip this clear with isopropilalcohol (IPA) 97% not 91% soak all kit in some contauner that is sealed coz IPA is vapouring quickly and also vapours helps to remove clear. it will lift the clear and u will have to strip it with brush.but nothing difficult. unless u use TS paint under it

[TurboGuru]

Originally Posted by turbothirtytwo

I have similar problem as yours when I started to use 2K. what I have learned is to add more thinner to have paint like when u thin normal acrylics or so.almost like milk consystency. and u should spray it very close to subject(maybe around 3cm from kit) and with fully open trigger coz this paint is thick.spray it with slow motions.dont be afraid of runs. and u can strip this clear with isopropilalcohol (IPA) 97% not 91% soak all kit in some contauner that is sealed coz IPA is vapouring quickly and also vapours helps to remove clear. it will lift the clear and u will have to strip it with brush.but nothing difficult. unless u use TS paint under it

Wait, You can strip zero 2k with 97% IPA solution?

Awesome! - I have zero 2k on the shelf, waiting to use it, I have IPA too (need to check the %) .... I thought once 2k was on that was it, it would be extremely difficult to remove?

[stevenoble]

Originally Posted by turbothirtytwo

You can strip this clear with isopropyl alcohol (IPA) 97%

Have you actually done this yourself and it's worked..?? Luckily I have never had to strip anything I've used the 2K clear on, but I know there will be a day when I will make a mistake. If the IPA works on stripping it, that would be good to know....

[Fangi0]

Originally Posted by stevenoble

Have you actually done this yourself and it's worked..?? Luckily I have never had to strip anything I've used the 2K clear on, but I know there will be a day when I will make a mistake. If the IPA works on stripping it, that would be good to know....

Tamiya TS Spray is also useful for stripping... I had a body I'd cleared in 2K that I wasn't 100% happy with, and in a moment of desperation I hit it with some Tamiya TS black, thinking I'd start over.... Within minutes the 2K had wrinkled, and I was able to almost peel it off in sheets.....

I put the resulting mess into IPA and it came up clean as a whistle...

Obviously some kind of nasty reaction.... and a warning not to use TS paints for window trim etc over a 2K cleared body...

[turbothirtytwo]

@steve: yes I have stripped calsonic GTR body. it was first time that I used it because of difficult body shape and it works. but I didnt get clean result coz I used TS paint which IPA doesnt seem dissolve. if it was acrylic it should strip it on bare primer without damaging it.

@fangi0: yep thats true it happened to me too but I hadnt IPA that time so I had to sand the clear down.luckyli it was small part

[TurboGuru]

2k clear can be removed with ease via IPA then
No more stressing about getting the wrong results and having to live with it!

[360spider]

Definitely need more thinner.

[gtziaf]

Thanks a lot for all comments...
I 'll try to my model tommorow morning.. During the day here in Greece we have 30-35 Celcius! So I 'll try in morning.
I 'll gone to 50% thinner... Its ok? More?
Thanks again for your time to help me...