A small question regarding vintage paint and Porsches...

[das_auto]

Hi!

I´m preparing a build of a Porsche 356 Speedster. Inspired by the "topless triö" I really want to give the "overturned bathtub" a go.

I´ve been looking into the different paintcodes and shades that were used. But one thing had me stumped.

What type of paint were actually used on the 356 at the factory? The one I´m gonna build is a ´56 so this was way before the time of urethanes.

In my research I´ve found that the paint was called "Kunstharzlack" and it seems like it was some kind of enamel paint that was "baked" in a heated oven to dry after application.

Am I wrong? And also if this is true would a modern alkyd enamel
(like Humbrol or Testors) be a similar thing?

I want to get the model paint as close to the original paint type as possible. Because I think that there is a difference in looks between todays "base and clear" paints and the solid, polished paints of yesterday.

I know some people think these are lame and anal questions, but I really enjoy making my models as close as possible to how the actual car was made.

Maybe someone with the knowledge of the german language
(i.e. meaning of Kunstharzlacke) and vintage car production can help me out.....please..

Thanks!, and Best regards!

Emil

[drunken monkey]

what's wrong with using regular gloss lacquers out of a can or from an airbrush?

[das_auto]

what's wrong with using regular gloss lacquers out of a can or from an airbrush?

Nothing at all!

I just wanted to see if there was anyone that knew an alternative paint that was as similar as possible to the real paint used in the 50´ies.

It never hurts to ask you know...

//Emil

[drunken monkey]

Sorry, it just sounded from your initial post that you hadn't considered them as you only mentioned base coat/top coat paints.

There is one thing about them though; I don't think the modern synthetic lacquers are as opaque as older paints tended to be which accounts for the way some old paints photo.

[das_auto]

Cheers! No harm mate...

There is one thing about them though; I don't think the modern synthetic lacquers are as opaque as older paints tended to be which accounts for the way some old paints photo

Yeah, this is one of the reasons I´m looking for alternatives...If applied and polished/waxed correctly the old-style paints have a depth that is amazing! Almost like an old french-polished grand piano...

That´s why I try to find an alternative paint that is made today that´ll look pretty much the same...

Cheers mate!

Emil

[jaykay640]

I guess your best bet for info would be a shop that restores the real ones ( properly :-)
Gunnar Racing comes to mind...
... or the Pelican Parts Forum

[drunken monkey]

You can try the "usual" enamel paints through an airbrush.
Enamel paints are often more opaque than modern lacquers but are just much thicker out of the can/pot.
I've heard people get good results by thinning it a lot and spraying very, very thin coats.

[das_auto]

Thanks for the tips guys!

[cinqster]

Good luck with your searching! Been there myself for my 1:1 car as there's very little info available.

AFN Porsche (the UK's offical Porsche dealers) spent months searching Stuttgart's records for their own immaculate 550 Spyder restoration as there are no contemporary records on the silver racing colour. After many tests they found that Mercedes 735 Astral Silver was the closest match in colour and finish. I was so impressed with it that I used on mine too and having parked it next to original Spyders, to me it's spot on.

Despite your thoughts that the original paint has depth, this silver is actually very fine grained and quite flat (non-reflective). This itself is what makes it look period correct, compared to today's sparkly bright metallics.

[das_auto]

Good luck with your searching! Been there myself for my 1:1 car as there's very little info available.

AFN Porsche (the UK's offical Porsche dealers) spent months searching Stuttgart's records for their own immaculate 550 Spyder restoration as there are no contemporary records on the silver racing colour. After many tests they found that Mercedes 735 Astral Silver was the closest match in colour and finish. I was so impressed with it that I used on mine too and having parked it next to original Spyders, to me it's spot on.

Despite your thoughts that the original paint has depth, this silver is actually very fine grained and quite flat (non-reflective). This itself is what makes it look period correct, compared to today's sparkly bright metallics.

Thanks for the info Cinqster!

Based on what you say, I´m thinking that. If I were to be doing a silver 356 I could get away with using a basecoat of the astral silver and then applying a couple of very thin coats of 1K Clear lacquer. Then waxing it up a little and it will look alright, keeping the shine quite low, but still shiny. If you get what I mean.

Or was the original silver paint a 1 coat, without clear? Like more of a satin finish....

Cheers!

Emil

[cinqster]

Yes Emil, that's how mine was painted, but the flatness is in the base paint, itself. The paint particles lay flatter as they are not in lots of clear suspension so don't sparkle so much as newer paints. Difficult to describe without seeing it! Imagine the satin, (almost sand-blasted) aluminium effect you see in modern metal furniture with a shiny clear coat on top and your kinda there!

The clear can be really polished, but the reflectivity of the paint won't change. Having said that, my painter refused to wet sand and buff the clear coat on mine as he said it 'wasn't period' and he wanted an original 'out of the gun' finish. In hindsight, he was right and I'm glad he convinced me. Very difficult to produce that subtle difference in a small scale though.

I did see some old German race cars at Goodwood a few years back that were finished in satin silver and they looked great. IIRC, they were painted in something called 'transport paint' which is used as a protective coat on German trucks! Will try to find some pictures of them.

[cinqster]

Here you go, I remembered the name...Veritas. Wee beauties!

http://www.khulsey.com/stockphotogra...sport-bmw.html



Prime example of satin paint under a high gloss clear!

[das_auto]

Wow!

Thanks a Million Cinqster!

//Emil

[Didymus]

Here's a paint selection sheet from ca 1957. I found it on a Porsche restoration website.

It may not help with paint chemistry, but since you're committed to originality, it should help with picking a color.

[Didymus]

Originally Posted by cinqster

Imagine the satin, (almost sand-blasted) aluminium effect you see in modern metal furniture with a shiny clear coat on top and your kinda there!

An approximation of that is Tamiya Bare Metal Silver.