HELP! Need Alignment ANswers QUICK!

[tblake]

Need some quick answers before I go pick up my car. I replaced the rear trailing arms so I thought I would have an alignment. Last summer replaced all 4 struts. So I dropped my car off, I get a call and the tech tells me my front struts are bad and he will need to charge me an extra half hour of labor to “hone them out” To make it alignable. I questioned into it further, and he said my camber and caster are both fine on the front, but the strut “needs to be honed in order to fit”. I was sort of getting irritated, so I questioned further and asked what exactly he would be honing if my camber and caster was fine, then why would he need to hone for a camber kit. He said “because the strut won’t fit”. I questioned farther and asked why they would be taking the strut out to align it, it obviously fits in there just fine. I then asked him where exactly he would need to hone in order for the strut to fit. He said “at the top of the strut”. Feeling like I was on a ride, I then asked if he could just line the toe up on the front end as best he could. He then said he “couldn’t because it is unalignable without the front struts “honed”. He then said he would like to replace both my front struts and align it. I asked what that was going to cost and he came back with an outrageous quote of over 600.00. It old him I didn’t want to spend that much money and then he did some number crunches and came back with a different quote of 500.00. I then mentioned I was an auto mechanic by trade so I didn’t want to spend all that money for them to do work when I could do it myself in my driveway. He said he understood. Then I asked him what my amount would be to just align it. He then asked me to hold while he figured it out. He comes back on the phone and goes “I just got the repair order hot off the press, and it looks like the tech says one of your back struts need to be honed too. So your total to align it looks like 230.00. I told him to not do anything and that I would replace the struts at home and bring it back in for an alignment at a later date. He then told me that I owe him 29.99 for an alignment check. I joking said “I thought you guys do free alignment checks”. He laughed and said no we don’t. But I am not paying them anything. Yesterday I printed a coupon off the internet for a free alignment check and 20.00 off an alignment at tires plus. So we will see if he wants to argue with me about my free alignment check. What do you guys think? I need some answers quick before I go pick it up on my lunch break so I can argue and sound intelligent.

Thanks!!!

[richtazz]

Tim, what is this crack head smoking? If you "hone out" the top mount holes, what will stop them from rotting out? I have never heard of anyone doing what he is suggesting, take your car anywhere else!!!!

[tblake]

Thanks Rich, Glad someone else agrees with me. I know some W-bodys (lumina) need to be honed out at the strut top plates to adjust camber and caster. But what I couldn't figure out is if my camber and caster is "good", and I don't need a camber kit, then why would I still need anything honed? And why couldn't he just align the toe like I asked without honing. When I asked him he just said "its un-alignable" without being honed. Ah, yeah right, what kind of fool do you take me for?

I'll go pick it up at 3pm and present him with my free alighnment check coupon I printed off tiresplus.com last night. Its hard because I don't have any leeway here other than saying if he doesn't honor the coupon I am going somewhere else. WHich if he honors it either way, I am going somewhere else. I already called my main mechanic in my home town who I usually go to for things like this and told him this story and he just laughed. I would have went to him initailly but his alignment rack is down. He said it should be fixed by thursday, so I scheduled an appointment.

[00GTP4ME]

Holy crap! What a complete moron. If I were you I would've asked him if he knew what a strut was. He'd probably tell you that an alignment was when all the planets in the solar system are in a straight line. Idiot. Camber and caster are fine, but your strut won't fit when it's already...where it needs to be? Don't go back to that place man.

[BNaylor]

Got your PM Tim. What a dildo!!!!

Not you Tim the moron alignment tech.

Look if the camber and caster are within specs then all that is left is toe in/out which the struts normally have nothing to do with. Did you get the alignment sheet off the machine? Struts don't wear out in one year either.

This reminds me of the moron alignment tech at Firestone Auto Center that said one of my front hubs was bad. The problem is I replaced the one he claimed was bad a few weeks earlier with a new AC Delco hub. He was speechless then.

[tblake]

Yeah, I will scan it in and post it maybe tomorrow. It appears my camber is a little off. maybe like .01 off spec on each side. Not enough for me to want to spend the cash for new struts or a camber kit. Not to mention if they would have just zeroed in the toe, I'd be willing to bet my camber would have all lined up like I asked.

Then the rear one he was talking about was on the side that I had a bent trailing arm and replaced it. So I figured it would need to be re-aligned since the last time it was aligned it was aligned with the bent trailing arm. Not to mention the rears camber is adjustable without honing.

I presented my coupon for a free alignment inspection and he took it without arguement which is suprizing. I got the feeling like they make commission and he was trying to sell a set of struts. I was sort of dressed nice today when I dropped my car off so maybe he thought I had oodles of money and didn't know anything.

Funny part was when I went to pick it up I asked "what brand of strut do you recommend I go with?" Then I said "I've heard bad things about monroe". Then he gets into defensive mode and goes "Who did you hear that from", and he didn't even answer my question. So I know what brand they were trying to sell me two new fronts for 500.00 bucks.

oh well I guess, my home town auto shop will have thier alignmnet rack fixed within the next couple of days and I set up an appointment with them on thursday. I will ask them if they see any reason to replace the struts. I drove home from work and the car didn't seem like it needed struts to me. But whatever I guess.

[BNaylor]

The camber kit doesn't cost much Tim. Installation isn't too difficult either. The biggest part of the job is elongating the strut to steering knuckle holes for the eccentric bolt. I installed one several years ago and specs are well within tolerance. Camber adjustment up to +- 2 degrees. AC Delco has one available as well as Moog.

See link.

Click here

[ricebike]

but,

why would he need this kit?

...he said my camber and caster are both fine on the front

i think that shop was gonna take him for a ride... good catch, tblakei also think if he readjusted the toe, it would have compensated...

please update when you go to your "trusted shop"

[tblake]

I will definatly guys. Thanks for the moral suppord.

[doctorhrdware]

Tblake I have a couple of questions for you or anyone else. I am replacing the left side trailing arm. I am not having any joy with getting off the nut and bolt for the trailing arm. So far I have tried PB blaster, and also the freeze spray. I can't get the bolt to break free. I have used a 1/2'' breaker bar and a handle from the jack, and 1/2'' electric impact wrench, with 250 foot pounds of torque. I am think of getting the acetylene torch back and using that to get the nuts and bolts off at where the caliper is. On the trailing arm were it attaches to the underbody, is there anything I need to know about getting the bolts off there.

With GP and the Explorer brakes it has been a real big pain in my ass. I am tired and pissed that it is taking so long to do a simple brake job and suspension work. On the Explorer I ended up replacing the rear rotors and no caliper brackets. Since the rear rotors were in such bad shape I ended up replacing the front rotors an both brackets. I had to use the sledge hammer to get the rotors off, due to how badly rusted the rotors were.

I tried looking on the net last night and could not find the torque specs for the track bar and the trailing bar nuts and bolts. I just want to get this nightmare over and done with.

[00GTP4ME]

Wow, what a pain. It reminds me of when I was replacing the tie rod ends. I tried hammering, torches, pb blaster, and the winner was a 3 ft 5lb sledge hammer and fork. I was ticked. Good luck with that one man. It's just me but when I get stuck like that I take it to the shop so if anything breaks, it's their fault. lol. My luck always causes things to break.

[ricebike]

yea, i googled an printed out a free alignment check coupon... thanks for the suggestion on you post tblake , my brother in law paid for it a few months ago~ DOH!

since we're going offtopic starting with doc's post: i needed to have it done on my family's minivan... inner tread wear on the front passenger side tire suggests a toe out of spec

[tblake]

Doc, if you are removing the big bolt that bolts the trailing arm to the bottom of the knuckle, The nut will be easier to turn. To break mine loose I actually had to put a breaker bar on it and stand on it. It was pretty tight, but once started, it came with minimal foul language. As for getting the bolt out, they should just slide out, but mine were both rusted in there, so I had to keep twisting back and forth while pounding on them. Eventually they came.

As for the end of the trailing arm that bolts to the frame, I had a hard time getting a wrench in there, so I ended up just removing the three 15mm bolts that secure the bracket to the frame. Those bolts were also a bee itch. I had to loosen them to the point I thought they were goint to break, panther piss the threads, and then screw them back in. I did this over and over until they finally came out without breaks.

[00GTP4ME]

I hate how auto mechanics requires patience.

[doctorhrdware]

Damm rain, it ha been raining on and off all morning. I am going out again and try it again and see if I can get it to break free from the knuckle. I need to get this done so I can get new rear tires on the car.

Thanks for the heads up Tim.

Used the acetylene torch got the nut off had to heat the bolt a little more and that came off also. There was a lot of rust dust coming from the bolt when it started to turn. Then it was spinning real fast. Now to get the the other end off. have to be real careful. Don't want to set the car on fire. That would be just my luck the way it has been going around here.