What do you think of an online rally picture database?

[Marco_Wrc]

Good evening,

question: Would you be interested in an online rally picture database?

If yes, how should it look like (features etc), and how should it not look like.
If no, why not? what should be done to change your mind?

Why am I asking this? (think you guessed it by now) I have this idea to build a site which has thousands and thousands of rally pictures. I already made a version for my own purpose (very simple, but effective). I thought it would be easy to have all the pictures in one spot rather then scattered all over the internet (wrc.com, rally-live.com, the rallyteam sites.)

Would it be possible to gather all the pictures on one site and not getting trouble with copyright? If there is a problem, what should I do to work around this.

A feature I'm thinking about: Let the visitors upload their pictures. They should register somehow first ofcourse. Members will get credit for the pictures they upload, etc, etc. Anyway, you get the idea. I want to make it highly interactive.

One thing that stops me from doing it straight away is datalimits, bandwidth and the money concerned with it. Can anyone tell me something about how to tackle it?

Euhm, that's it for now. I'll wait and see what you think of it.

[RallyRaider]

Sounds like a cool idea. However the headaches involved with copyright and storage space could be major obstacles.

[BugZilla]

I think it's a great idea, though I dont know much about copyrights and all that. I would like to see something that includes detail pic's of engines, interiors and all the stuff that they never show. Takes a long time trying to search for reference pic's to detail models.

[Marco_Wrc]

Thanks for the support.

Copyright is an issue indeed. One needs permission to use copyrighted material from the owner. But, I found something about fair use of copyrighted material.

source: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include-

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

To work with this rule I thought of the following.
First of all I demand members to get permission from the owner of the images they want to upload. If they have permission, or not, credits will go out to the owner of the picture (free advertisement for the owner).
I'll place disclaimers on prominent places on the site with information about the purpose of the site (non-profit, educational) and about the use/abuse of copyright.

Takes a long time trying to search for reference pic's to detail models.

So, it'll also be for research (one more argument to use fair-use).


Now, I went to work although I'm still not sure whether everything (copyright issues) is foolproof. I arranged webspace, so that's one problem less (for now). There's space for about 15000+ pictures, so for the time being it should be ok.

I now get at the point of uploading images. My question is:
What sort of information should be shown with a picture?
This is what I have right now:
Name of driver, co-driver. Brand and model of car. Name of rally, year, which leg. (also owner of picture)

If this is in your opinion not enough, what should be add as well?

Thank you for your time.

[freakray]

It sounds to me like you are going about things the right way Marco, which is good and I really respect that.

As far as listing the photos, I think you have it covered as far as how to identify photos, the only thing I would add is to perhaps to have them in folders as it were, so that all the Focus photos are together, and all the Subaru ones and so forth.

I hope it all works out for you

Ray

[Marco_Wrc]

Originally posted by freakray
It sounds to me like you are going about things the right way Marco, which is good and I really respect that.

As far as listing the photos, I think you have it covered as far as how to identify photos, the only thing I would add is to perhaps to have them in folders as it were, so that all the Focus photos are together, and all the Subaru ones and so forth.

I hope it all works out for you

Ray

I thought of two ways accessing the pictures. One by surfing around using a menu or so. (Indeed, keeping all the pictures of one brand in one folder, ...sort of).
This is what I have now, a quick example. It is a menu for quickbrowsing the database the names are clickable. I think you have something like this in mind as well.


And two, I think most of the people look for specific pictures. Here we can use a searchpage.

Small general update: Uploading of images works, need to fnish it a bit so driversnames, cars and rallynames can be add with a picture. Most of the support systems work like register/loginsystem, newspage, automatic thumbnailing, as well as the layout.

[Guido]

Hey Marco,

I very much like that idea. I'm about to redesign my site as well - showcase for modelers the world over - and have a reference page as well. It was basic and I post only my own pictures, but now it grows I need a sort of database as well, I see that as the biggest challenge. Creating the whole database, which can be accessed then.

As far as indexing is concerned, like Ray said, I think you have covered, nearly everything. Maybe main sponsor or so. And the final result the car got during that event, as background info.

[hrmodeler]

Good work for now Marco!

Only problem can be with bandwith when people start to download photos. That problem I had last month with my site.

[Marco_Wrc]

I'm glad people like the idea.

I'm a bit further now.
http://www.rpdb.net/ is online, not much to see yet, but it's mine
The system for uploading pictures (as well as viewing them) has progressed a lot.

Originally posted by hrmodeler
Good work for now Marco!

Only problem can be with bandwith when people start to download photos. That problem I had last month with my site.

That's my main concern for now. I host this site at a friends server, he wanted to host it for free (how generous). I told him the site would generate a lot of traffic. He first wants to see how much it will be, before he decides whether he continues to host or not.

I try to get minimal traffic by thumbnailing every picture. It will cost me a bit more diskspace but when browsing the pictures you'll see small thumbnails instead of loading the full picture. (when you click on it you get the original).
This will generate about 80% less traffic, I hope.

Zeljko, may I ask you where you host your website? 10gb datalimit sounds good (but expensive). How much diskspace is available? around 1gb?

[freakray]

Marco,
I don't want to sound critical, but you should be careful using the FIA and WRC logos, if you have permission that is one thing, but they are copyrighted trademarks.

[Marco_Wrc]

Originally posted by freakray
Marco,
I don't want to sound critical, but you should be careful using the FIA and WRC logos, if you have permission that is one thing, but they are copyrighted trademarks.

Good point, forgot about that. Will send them emails right away. Thanks for the critical eye.

[bigfrit]

Really like and support this idea! Nice to have a full DB with all photo's available.

Great work sofar.

olivier

[hrmodeler]

Marco,
my site is 100 MB big and I have 10 GB limit on bandwith. Usually providers give less bandwith but this one give more.
It's based in my country.

[Marco_Wrc]

Sad news. I emailed wrc.com with a few questions... I got these answers.
I somewhat expected this.

Dear Marco

Thank you for your email to wrc.com

Unfortunately we are unable to allow you to use the pictures on our website. These come from our photography agency, McKlein, and the terms of our contract with them state that we are not able to grant use to third party websites.

Neither am I unable to give you access to the WRC logo, which is reserved for official partners and license holders of the WRC.

Apologies that on this occasion we are unable to help.

Regards

WRC Press

So, there goes a good source for pictures, and the logo which I used as a part of my own logo.
The good news is, the website is almost finished, and ready for testing/reviewing.

But still, the birth of rpdb.net has become overcast by dark clouds of copyright.

[Marco_Wrc]

Originally posted by Marco_Wrc
Sad news. I emailed wrc.com with a few questions... I got these answers.
I somewhat expected this.



So, there goes a good source for pictures, and the logo which I used as a part of my own logo.
The good news is, the website is almost finished, and ready for testing/reviewing.

But still, the birth of rpdb.net has become overcast by dark clouds of copyright.

Though last week I got the rights to use graphics from codemasters. I used a rallycar in my logo which comes from artwork from the game Colin McRae rally 3. A small success.