They want the world to believe THEY are peaceful...

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

I was waiting for the race card to be pulled. In my question to you which was fair I was not talking about people of different races. Using Iraq as an example the Sunnis and Shites are the same same race of people...i.e. Arab. Although they are of the same religion obviously they have major differences among each other including how Islam is supposed to work and continue to kill each other. I'm all ears.

You're obviously not getting it. Whether it's race or religion, both develops racism and hatred towards each other regardless if it's against there beliefs or not. It's human nature!! There's ppl in our community that wont talk to each other because of PROFESSION! Business people think they're better than doctors and vice versa.

[GForce957]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

I was waiting for the race card to be pulled. In my question to you which was fair I was not talking about people of different races. Using Iraq as an example the Sunnis and Shites are the same same race of people...i.e. Arab. Although they are of the same religion obviously they have major differences among each other including how Islam is supposed to work and continue to kill each other. I'm all ears.

Half of his post was about people who are the same race who deal with similar issues as Sunnis and Shiites, ie British vs Irish and more specifically Protestant Irish vs Catholic Irish.

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

Mellowboy, I guess we should assume that you are one of the more peaceful members of the Islamic faith and I just wish there were more like you!

There's millions that are peaceful. They're easier to find than the ones that you hear on tv.

Originally Posted by HotZ28

BTW, what is the benefit of some Islamic terrorist sacrificing their own life to drive a car bomb into a group of innocent people? Do they get extra credit from "Allah" (The Moon God) in the hereafter for the more they kill; or does Allah only gives points for killing infidels and not necessarily innocent bystanders? In addition, do they suffer judgment (fewer virgins) for killing non-infidels? Sorry, but I just can't rationalize this type of religious extremism!

OK first it's forbidden to kill anyone that's innocent. Second, where did you ever get an idea that God is a "moon God." I'd like for you to show me where you get this idea from.

Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.9

Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi from Ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, saw the corpse of a woman who had been slain in one of the raids, and he disapproved of it and forbade the killing of women and children.

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 445

Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak:
The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "Whoever intentionally swears falsely by a religion other than Islam, then he is what he has said, (e.g. if he says, 'If such thing is not true then I am a Jew,' he is really a Jew). And whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire." Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him."


Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 446

Narrated Abu Huraira-:
The Prophet said, "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire."
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 73

Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak:
(who was one of the companions who gave the pledge of allegiance to the Prophet underneath the tree (Al-Hudaibiya)) Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever swears by a religion other than Islam (i.e. if somebody swears by saying that he is a non-Muslim e.g., a Jew or a Christian, etc.) in case he is telling a lie, he is really so if his oath is false, and a person is not bound to fulfill a vow about a thing which he does not possess. And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection; And if somebody curses a believer, then his sin will be as if he murdered him; And whoever accuses a believer of Kufr (disbelief), then it is as if he killed him."


On the authority of Jundub ibn Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:

“There was amongst those before you a man who had a wound. He was in [such] anguish that he took a knife and made with it a cut in his hand, and the blood did not cease to flow till he died. Allah the Almighty said: ‘My servant has himself forestalled Me; I have forbidden him Paradise.’”

It was related by al-Bukhari. (Hadith Qudsi 28)



Surah Al-Kahf verse 74-"Then they both proceeded, till they met a boy, he (Khidr) killed him. Mûsa (Moses) said: "Have you killed an innocent person who had killed none? Verily, you have committed a thing "Nukr" (a great Munkar - prohibited, evil, dreadful thing)!"




Surah Al-Nisa verse 29-30-"O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allâh is Most Merciful to you.[] (29) And whoever commits that through aggression and injustice, We shall cast him into the Fire, and that is easy for Allâh."


Surah Al-Maeda verse 32- "Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allâh by committing the major sins) in the land!"




etc....

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by mellowboy

You're obviously not getting it. Whether it's race or religion, both develops racism and hatred towards each other regardless if it's against there beliefs or not. It's human nature!! There's ppl in our community that wont talk to each other because of PROFESSION! Business people think they're better than doctors and vice versa.

Obviously it is human nature and has been going on for thousands of years. Actually I do get but we are talking about the extremists that use religion as a scape goat or excuse but that makes for bad publicity. But again lets not compare apples to oranges. This thread is starting to get ridiculous.

[CL8]

Originally Posted by mellowboy

I don't understand how it's a one sided argument when I'm trying to show that there's double standards in almost everything. I mean seriously who is perfect?? When Islam is about peace, why assume that every Muslim is peaceful? We make mistakes and again we are human. Islam is a code of life we live by and not everyone lives by the code or law.

That is a lie. If it was true those "Muslim" nations in the Middle east wouldn't be trying to annihilate Israel and calling the U.S. the "Great Satan"

[CL8]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

Comparing apples to oranges.

Sex offender is a vague term and a lot of times the crime is not really that bad depending on what perspective you have. Plus there are females that are sex offenders like school teachers. If a female school teacher had sex with one of my sons before age 17 or as a minor I would give her a hug and give him an attaboy.

I expected higher standards from you Bnaylor!

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by CL8

That is a lie. If it was true those "Muslim" nations in the Middle east wouldn't be trying to annihilate Israel and calling the U.S. the "Great Satan"

No it's not lie. Orthodox Jews are against Israel also, what do you have to say about them? There's no "true Muslim" nations without a caliph. US is already probably the most hated country worldwide, not just middle east.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by CL8

I expected higher standards from you Bnaylor!

Moot issue for me since my children are already grown up (21 y.o. and older) and on their own. So I really don't have to worry about it and it was just a hypothetical situation.

However, I do have much higher standards than my Saudi friends who think that marrying and impregnating a 12-13 year old girl is fine with them. It is done every day over there. Not to mention being able to have up to 4 wives.

[HotZ28]

Originally Posted by mellowboy

Second, where did you ever get an idea that God is a "moon God." I'd like for you to show me where you get this idea from.

Just Goggle "Allah the Moon-God" you will find many; here is one: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, who was Professor of Arabic and Islamic Studies at Edinburgh University and Visiting Professor of Islamic studies at College de France, Georgetown University, and the University of Toronto, has done extensive work on the pre-Islamic concept of Allah.

He concludes:
"In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammad and the origins of Islam great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a "high god." In a sense this is a form of paganism, but it is so different from paganism as commonly understood that it deserves separate treatment" (William Montgomery Watt, Muhammad's Mecca, p. vii. Also see his article, "Belief in a High God in Pre-Islamic Mecca", Journal of Semitic Studies, Vol. 16, 1971, pp. 35-40).


Caesar Farah in his book on Islam concludes his discussion of the pre-Islamic meaning of Allah by saying:
"There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews" (Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York, Barrons, 1987, p. 28).

According to Middle East scholar E.M. Wherry, whose translation of the Quran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times Allah-worship, as well as the worship of Ba-al, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon, and the stars (A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, Osnabruck: Otto Zeller Verlag, 1973, p. 36).

[thegladhatter]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

Not to mention being able to have up to 4 wives.

That's further proof that they are off their beans!!! Plus it explains why they are so willing to strap dynomite to themselves and blow stuff up!!

[CL8]

Originally Posted by mellowboy

No it's not lie. Orthodox Jews are against Israel also, what do you have to say about them? There's no "true Muslim" nations without a caliph. US is already probably the most hated country worldwide, not just middle east.

Orthodox Jews are not strapping bombs to themselves, killing people and trying to annihilate Israel.

How is it that Muslim sympathizers cannot see how The Muslim religion and doctrine warps the mind and thinking of those who adhere to it, to the point of killing innocent people?

[blazee]

Originally Posted by CL8

How is it that Muslim sympathizers cannot see how The Muslim religion and doctrine warps the mind and thinking of those who adhere to it, to the point of killing innocent people?

It's no different than Christianity, or pretty much any other religion. The whole point of religion is to warp the mind and thinking to a certain set of beliefs. It was designed to control the masses, and has worked well... much easier than trying to control people that think for themselves. The funny thing is that everyone can see how utterly ridiculous every other religion is other than their own.

[drunken monkey]

something interesting to read in light of this discussion.

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by CL8

Orthodox Jews are not strapping bombs to themselves, killing people and trying to annihilate Israel.

How is it that Muslim sympathizers cannot see how The Muslim religion and doctrine warps the mind and thinking of those who adhere to it, to the point of killing innocent people?

Right. Again, suicide is forbidden in Islam and killilng innocent ppl is forbidden. Did you not read my previous post? Just because you see some that strap bombs unto themselves doesn't represent anything in Islam. You guys are really stubborn!Thats why when we protest againist Israel's onslaught, Muslims and Jewish people come together. I have videos if you wanna see it. IF anyone here is in Tucson, we build up the wall in the UofA campus to protest.

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

Just Goggle "Allah the Moon-God" you will find many; here is one: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Yeah well they're wrong. Would go to a mechanic for your health check up??