Disappointed

[LS1Steve]

Originally posted by Scottie300z


Especially considering the LS1 is made for straight line speed (V8, high Torque, 300+ hp, etc..) and the Z (V6, broad powerband, 287hp, etc..) isn't.

that is what they expected, and you are basically repeating what i just said, so whats the problem?

just feel like arguing?

[Scottie300z]

My point is why does the comparison between the LS1 and the 350Z keep coming up. I mean everybody seems to believe that they are different cars made for different reasons.

And If I just wanted to argue why would I have agreed?

And I am not the one saying I might go out to other boards to recruit people.

[LS1Steve]

alrighty then, case closed.

Originally posted by Scottie300z

And I also really am not that educated an chevys (you might be able to tell) so it sort of leaves me w/ little to no credability on this subject

I should have ended my commenting right here.

[importriders]

LS1Steve, exactly what kind of response were you thinking of getting when posting the following:

"I've spoken to several people who have recently gotten a 350Z who also own an LS1, and they agree with everything i've said. Great handling car, but severely lacks the torque they are used to. Like mentioned above, different strokes for different folks.
Again, see you all on the road, don't bet the pink."

Then you say that this is what they, the people you spoke to, expected. Why even post the first comment? It seems to me, and obviously other people on this forum, that "you" are the one looking for an arguement.

It also seems to me that you are puzzled by the reaction you are getting from your post. Here is a bit of advice: Always take into consideration your audience. This is a 350Z forum, and the majority of people reading this forum do not want to hear about American cars. But again you are free to post whatever you like, but do not be surprised when people do not have the same view as you.

[LS1Steve]

the only point I am trying to make is that both are great cars in their own ways. But there are people who will argue that the 350 is the best thing in the world in every aspect. My comment on people I spoke to was just another opinion from someone who's actually driven both and agrees that the 350 is better in the handling dept. but not in the power dept., simple as that. He test drove it first so obviously he new the capabilities, that was not the issue. I suppose you're right about posting here, as the original poster mentioned, negative commentary of any sort will not be accepted about the beloved 350Z, gods gift to the pavement.

[Dragon6]

The 350Z was the first car I ever bought without driving. I am also somewhat disappointed with the off-the-line performance. It has been everything else that I wanted in terms of handling, style and pure fun. 1st gear is not impressive, 2-5 are a blast who uses #6? I love to driving the canyon roads of Southern California, not drag racing, so I am very happy with the car. However, I agree that Nissan missed an opportunity in the low end perfromance area. When I compare it to my son's VW GTI 1.8T, it feels slow off the line. We have been discussing finding a super charger vs. a turbo to help the low end since the top end is not where, I personally, need more power.

Dragon6

[Scottie300z]

Yeah I don't know alot about camaros (at least not as much as imports, but more then non car people), but atleast I can come to terms with that and ask for knowledge so I can learn more about them.

1.I don't really remember bashing the car that wasn't related to first hand witnessing. And even then I believe I second guessed myself.

2.I did ask for places where maybe I can get to know more about that car but did I get any help? Noo all I got was you telling me I just wanted to argue. I don't see how wanting to learn more about a car is arguing.

3.Where are the people saying the 350Z is the best thing?
I haven't seen it.

4.Maybe instead of ending your commenting there, YOU could have ended YOUR arguing and helped a car guy out.

[Stangduo]

Ok time for my spam.

First I will answer the original question, why isnt the Z more powerfull. Because at this time Nissan is just establishing a market presence for the car, and one of the best ways is to build a qualty car that is balanced and INEXPENSIVE.

In a few years they will come out with a Turbo version with 400hp, but it will start at 36000 or so. What they dont want to happen is that they price the car out of the market of people that would want it and their sales drop like a rock, ala the 300ZX.

Now let me say that I am a mustang fan, thus the name, but I also love the Z. With that said the Z is not a drag car. Will it beat the Mustang GT in a straight race, probably yes. Will it beat any LS1 powered car, Z28 SS Trans Am Firebird Formula? No.

Straight up no, not on the bottem end 274 torque at 4000 on IRS for the Z vs 310 torque at 3400 on straight axle for the LS1. From there it only gets worse for the Z. At the top end the LS1 will run, not walk, run away from the Z. At the top end the Z's main benifit, being lighter, is less of a factor.

Like many have said the Z is not all about power it is about balance. Both good power and being able to take corners. More iportant it is about weither you love the car or not. Love of a car is the only real reason to buy a car. If you love the design and the hertige buy the Z, if not buy something else.

ps The camaro is dying for the same reason the 300zx died. Not enuff women are buying the lower end models. Beleave it or not most of the money Ford makes on Mustangs is not from GT's or Cobra's. Ford makes its money on the V6 model. Why because of HUGE volume.

And the Camaro will be back. Expect a new one in 2005 just in time to compete with the new mustang. Can you say 400 N/A horsepower from both, I know you can.

[LS1Steve]

Well Said!
I agree 100%

[boostm3]

And cars don't slow down as quickly as they depreciate. Point? You could buy something used for a boatload less cash that will crush a 350Z. ANY used Camaro or Mustang Cobra would make a 350Z's life pretty miserable. Heck, even some of them ratty 5.0s would do the trick...

I dont know how you can compare them. In pure stock trim, the Z equals or beats the Camero. Granted, the SVT Cobra will out drag it. But comparing it to the Camero, the Z will run circles around it in the turns, and forget about comparing suspensions. And what about the quality differential? There's no way that either the Camero OR the Mustang is going to have the body integrity and interior quality of the Z. The Japanese cars have the tightest put-together quality, and best body integrity of them all. I havent even mentioned my supercharged E36 '99 M3, which will drive circles around them all, because its a different price category, but not by all that much.

[formerfordguy]

Originally posted by boostm3


In pure stock trim, the Z equals or beats the Camero. Granted, the SVT Cobra will out drag it. But comparing it to the Camero, the Z will run circles around it in the turns, and forget about comparing suspensions. And what about the quality differential? There's no way that either the Camero OR the Mustang is going to have the body integrity and interior quality of the Z. The Japanese cars have the tightest put-together quality, and best body integrity of them all. I havent even mentioned my supercharged E36 '99 M3, which will drive circles around them all, because its a different price category, but not by all that much.

In pure stock trim, the Z28 takes the 350z in the 1/4 mile every time. Handling, say on a road course, would end up in favor of the 350Z.

In the case of the new 2003 Cobra, it wins hands down in both contests over either car. With 390HP on tap, it has a 100HP advantage over the 350Z. It has the same or bigger brakes, the same IRS with limited slip, and would eat a 350Z alive on any course. Hell, it's nearly the same size and weight as the 350Z. And the 2003 Cobra is the same price (or less) as the Performance / Touring and/or Track 350Z models.

And your car? It's not stock -- so you can't compare.

One thing that would be nice in here is consistent comparisons:

stock vs stock
modified vs. modified

[boostm3]

In pure stock trim, the Z28 takes the 350z in the 1/4 mile every time. Handling, say on a road course, would end up in favor of the 350Z.

I was really trying to look at the quality of the contestants as well. To me, there's very little that can compare to the best makes the Japanese have to offer. Certainly Chevy and Ford cant even play in the same league. In terms of quality of make, body integrity, and things like that, the 350z should win hands down. And as a bimmer lover, Im not even a big fan of Japanese cars. But, I do appreciate their make. On paper, there's not much wrong with the new SVT Cobra. I agree. For $35 grand (if you could really find one for that) the Cobra is tough to beat, if not impossible. But Ive driven in cobras, and to me, they feel big, clunky, and anything but smooth and sophisiticated. And in the corners, even with their new IRS, they still cant come close to an M3, and probably even, the 350Z. I know its skid pad numbers are good, but, if you put big enough meats on anything, it'll grip well. Thats not so much about the quality of the suspension as it is the meats used. But like I said, I agree that its getting alot closer than it used to be.

[Stangduo]

Originally posted by boostm3


I dont know how you can compare them. In pure stock trim, the Z equals or beats the Camero. Granted, the SVT Cobra will out drag it. But comparing it to the Camero, the Z will run circles around it in the turns, and forget about comparing suspensions. And what about the quality differential? There's no way that either the Camero OR the Mustang is going to have the body integrity and interior quality of the Z. The Japanese cars have the tightest put-together quality, and best body integrity of them all. I havent even mentioned my supercharged E36 '99 M3, which will drive circles around them all, because its a different price category, but not by all that much.

I guess I am in the mood to fight today.

How exactily does the Z beat the Camaro?

In Autox, maybe. The stock suspensioned SS is no slouch in road racing(stock vs stock), sure the suspension may not be as dialed in as the Z's but 310 Rear Wheel Torque at 3200 rpm makes up for a LARGE amount of the track Z's better suspension. Also remember that 310 figure is what most SS's see AT THE WHEELS, so if you calculate it out they are making about 340 ft/lbs at the flywheel. That is a MONSTER difference over the Z's 274 at 4400 rpm. 70ft/lbs more torque 1200 rpm earlier makes it easier for the SS to be lazy in the corners and just run the Z down on the straights. As for dragging see my first post, no way the Z hangs.

Like the nissan dealer said earlier. I have seen the insides of the Z, the Camaro, and the Mustang. None of them are that great, they all look a little cheap. Out of the group the 03 Cobra has the best interior and even it is NO WHERE close to a BMW or any other luxory car. As for fit and finish refer to the Z thread about people already having squeeks coming from there windshield dash area.

As for the Cobra, it will beat the stock Z in every compition. Does it have the road feel of a BMW, no. It is closer than it used to be but it is not there yet, and may never get there either.

As for your car boostm3, great car by the way, it is modified. Give me some money and I can build a Cobra or SS that will hug the road just like your car does. Once the modding starts it doesnt matter what you have, you can build it to do what you want. Thus front wheel drive imports doing 10's or Saleen GT's winning their class in SCCA.

All in all the 350Z is a very fun car but at this point of its life it is too early to compare it power wise with the LS1's or Cobra's.

[boostm3]

I guess I am in the mood to fight today.

After reading what you have to say, I dont think we have much to fight about. Honestly, even with a 400 hp M3, my head was Still turned when I read the stats of the new SVT cobra. No doubt, its a big head turner. If god forbid, I lost my car, Id seriously place the SVT cobra on my short list to look at! But an acquantance of mine had a '96 Cobra, and I gotta tell ya, sure, it makes great sounds, but it drives like a damn truck. No kidding. And this was before it got ITS too. Even aside from that, clunks, rattles, awful steering feel, etc, etc. I think alot of my Mustang knowledge comes from my first hand view of this. Even the seat leather was absolutely horrible. It was called leather, but it reminded me alot more of perforated black paper. Just awful.

Its these kinds of faults that I cant imagine a 350Z or any Japanese car of that ilk would possess.

Thats why Im thinking that, whenever it comes out, and you guys could give me a better idea of when that might be, the Z Turbo is probably going to be a real world beater and a world beater price. What Id imagine its going to have is, aside from Japanese make quality, hp in the area of 350 - 400 hp, price in the lo - mid $40s tops, and upgraded drivetrain, suspension, and braking systems. But of course, at about the time this comes out, the RX-8 will probably be doing its turbo thing, and not far behind, probably, will be the return of the turbocharged Supra!

It sounds like fun times are back doesnt it! And, I believe I read that, nice as teh SVT Cobra is, its the last of the platform, so there should be some very interesting things coming from there too, although God knows what Ford can do to top itself on this one!

[Stangduo]

Originally posted by boostm3


After reading what you have to say, I dont think we have much to fight about. Honestly, even with a 400 hp M3, my head was Still turned when I read the stats of the new SVT cobra. No doubt, its a big head turner. If god forbid, I lost my car, Id seriously place the SVT cobra on my short list to look at! But an acquantance of mine had a '96 Cobra, and I gotta tell ya, sure, it makes great sounds, but it drives like a damn truck. No kidding. And this was before it got ITS too. Even aside from that, clunks, rattles, awful steering feel, etc, etc. I think alot of my Mustang knowledge comes from my first hand view of this. Even the seat leather was absolutely horrible. It was called leather, but it reminded me alot more of perforated black paper. Just awful.

Its these kinds of faults that I cant imagine a 350Z or any Japanese car of that ilk would possess.

Thats why Im thinking that, whenever it comes out, and you guys could give me a better idea of when that might be, the Z Turbo is probably going to be a real world beater and a world beater price. What Id imagine its going to have is, aside from Japanese make quality, hp in the area of 350 - 400 hp, price in the lo - mid $40s tops, and upgraded drivetrain, suspension, and braking systems. But of course, at about the time this comes out, the RX-8 will probably be doing its turbo thing, and not far behind, probably, will be the return of the turbocharged Supra!

It sounds like fun times are back doesnt it! And, I believe I read that, nice as teh SVT Cobra is, its the last of the platform, so there should be some very interesting things coming from there too, although God knows what Ford can do to top itself on this one!

I think we do aggree on alot of stuff. But I dont think you can say Cobra's are made badily just because of the mid 90's models. Granted the power wasnt really there and the seats SUCK and of course stock it pilots like a yacht, I have a 96 cobra so I know that all of that is true. The only thing I could call you on is that neither my cobra or my gt have ever had a mechnical problem, gt is 70k and cobra 45k, and neither of them have any rattles or squeeks.

All I am saying is that I dont judge all German cars by the Porche 924 of the late 70's and you shouldnt judge Cobra's by the ones that sucked 8 years ago. In my mind Ford is definately heading in the right direction with their newest SVT products (I cant comment on the Focus). Both the Cobra and the Lightning have awesome power and nice interiors. The leather seats in the 03 Cobra for example are very nice. In my opinion as long as Ford keeps its eye on constantily improving the brand (SVT) I think that we could one day soon speek of the Cobra in the same breath as the M3 in terms of comfort and road feel. (No, it is not there yet)

I STRONGILY aggree this is a great time for car lovers of all types. Just to name a few: M3, M5, Z06 Vette, New Viper, 03 Cobra, New Supra, Skyline(finally), RX8, and of course the 350Z. All of those cars as well as some I didnt mention, 500hp Bentley anyone, are reason for every car nut to be smiling.

As for what ford is doing for the New Cobra the *rumor* is a 4.6 DOHC resleaved to a 5.0 DOHC (400hp N/A). Revised suspension geometry thanks to the new platform, the first since 1979, a navigation system and Formula One paddle shifters. Hopefully with all that and good build quality will make it a truly sought after product.