'97 Grand prix takes long to start, P0441 DTC and bubbling brake pedal

[olopezm]

Hello, just to be sure today I checked the fuel pressure with my FP gauge and it took a little more than one hour to drop all the way down to 0, is this ok?.

Also I checked all vacuum lines in order to clear P0441, all seem to be ok, I tested the canister purge solenoid by running cables from the batter to the solenoids terminals and it makes a clicking sound wich I think is what it's supposed to do, also I blow some air with my mouth to make sure it seals completely and it's blocked when not connected to battery and clear when connected, should I still change the purge solenoid?

Finally, I was taking a look at the box where the new spark plugs came in and it says that I should regap them to proper engine's specifications, so... what should I do regap them or leave them the way they are at the moment. How should I regap these?

Best regards...

[tblake]

fuel pressure soungs good. I am not an expert on evap diagnosis, so i don't know if I can be much help. Stock spark plug gap is .060.

[richtazz]

if you have double platinum/iridium plugs, do not regap. You could damage the plugs while doing so (by knocking the platinum/iridium disc off or misaligning them) and cause more problems than a .002" gap variation would cause.

The fuel pressure sounds fine and the evap solenoid test sound like the solenoid is functioning.

[olopezm]

Hello guys, thanks tblake and richtazz for your answers.

About the spark plugs I'm not gonna touch them anymore, I ocasionally get a misfire but that's OK compared to the constant lack of power, besides that everything is working fine all the original symptoms are gonne except for the P0441, as I 've read this DTC does not affects the engines performance, if you guys have something to say against that please let me know; so I guess I can live with that for some time, I'll save some money and get a Live data scanner to monitor all the values from the EVAP system in order to find out where the problem is.

So finally I can say this is over, once again than you very much for your help guys, it would have been hard for me to solve this without your help. I'll update the first post just in case somebody else has a similar problem.

Best regards to both of you guys.

[olopezm]

Hello guys, I just want to ask you what to do about the evap canister of my GP, do you remember I mentioned a fuel smell, well this afternoon the smell came back, since I noticed it when I arrived home I checked inmediatly where it was coming from and the answer was from the canister, when I put my ear on the rear bumper (where the canister is) I could hear some noise like water was flowing, I suppose it must be the fuel in the gas tank.

So... what do you guys think? Is the canister is broken and is causing the P0441 DTC? Should I just replace it or is there any method to fix it?.

Thanks in advance for your help.

PS. I already checked the lines going to the canister and they are fine, I did replace some short hoses wich are connected directly to the canister since I started this post, wich is why I'm thinking the problem is the canister.

[tblake]

I am pretty sure the canister is servicable without removing the tank, if that is your question. Problem is I think they are quite spendy and if you live in a salty state like MN, they are rusted in. If I were you I may look for a good used one to replace yours. Maybe send morads and email. It may take care of your P0441 and fuel oder. Are you sure the vapor/vacuum lines are all good including the one that runs from the canister to the engine compartment? I forget now, did you have the fuel vapor system smoked to check for leaks?

[olopezm]

No I haven´t had it smoked, some guy wants to charge about $600 dollars just to do it and I have to add parts and labor when he finds the problem, that is why I would like to check everything myself first, definitely It must be cheaper to change all components of the evap system than paying that guy just to smoke it...

Yes, I know the canister is serviceable without removing the tank, I already took it apart from the car but I didn't find any crack on it, the only thing I replaced are the rubber hoses wich connect netween the canister and the nylon lines (one to the fuel tank and one to the engine compartment). Since I already checked the purge solenoid, and seems to be fine; and todays fuel odor was coming out from the back side right where the canister is located, then I'm guessing the problem is the canister and I'm trying to get some feedback from you people first.

Thanks for your help!.

[richtazz]

If you live on a dirt road, or drive in a dusty area often, most likely the filter on the canister has become clogged. Since they are a sealed unit, the filter is not serviceable and the canister will need to be replaced. Oh, and you're very welcome for all the help, that's what we're here for. Thank you for the feedback, it may help others with a similar issue, and we like to hear happy endings.

[olopezm]

Hello people, I haven't had enough time to replace the evap canister because I've been working on our other two cars (town car and windstar), I was changing the grand prix's air filter and I noticed a crack in the air intake boot, could this cause the P0441 code or should I just go ahead and replace both things the evap canister and the intake boot. Thanks for your help.

Best regards...

[tblake]

Yea, a crack in the intake boot could cause all sorts of issues. I would focus on replacing that and clearing the code before worrying about the charcoal canister, buying one, breaking your back to get the old one out, and possibly breakign rusty bolts off. Start simple.

[olopezm]

Thanks tblake, I've been a little busy with our other cars.

I will do that but I was thinking that since the MAF is located after the air intake boot it shouldn't affect the reading, should it?, I'll get a new one anyway. I removed the canister and one of the lines on it seems to be blocked when I blow air trough it; is this the normal condition?.

Thanks in advance.

[tblake]

It may be normal depending on if that line goes to the vac or purge solonoids.

[olopezm]

Thanks tblake, sorry for taking long to answer. I meant to say the lines on the canister itself, not the nylon lines that run to the gas tank and the engine compartment. I still haven't found a good used canister and am still looking for it.

I will post back ASAP. Thanks for your help again.