MOTY Voting

[MPWR]

Just two days to go! Votes will be received until the end of January, GMT.

Soon, very soon the votes will be tallied, and the winner must begin to endure his public adoration and ridicule!!

Despite what Alex has said, a clear leader has emerged!! One entry has been ahead from nearly the very first vote cast. Second and third now are 'close', and one model is just a single point away from receiving an arbitrary 18 votes!

Who will the winner be??

Most of the Germans have voted now, so it's time for the rest of you to pick your favorites and send them in.

Winners will be announced in February!

[godfather23]

Originally Posted by MPWR

Most of the Germans have voted now, so it's time for the rest of you to pick your favorites and send them in.

I should have never disclosed my citizenship. I feel möcked.

[MPWR]

You have my most sincere möck sympathy.

[rockinanko]

Originally Posted by godfather23

I should have never disclosed my citizenship. I feel möcked.

oh, please don't feel that way...

i'm a chinese here in SGP but i have a german 'bruder' which i love & respect so much! still trying hard to save up just to visit him in germany some day, you know...(his web name is netbaer, another 100% ferrari 1/24 freak & great modelor too!)

so be proud bro, you get my vote on this...I LOVE GERMANY!!!!

[godfather23]

Following the dicussion from yeaterday night, I can asure you all that I was trying to be funny with my last post in this thread.

I officially announce my retirement from cyncism. It seems as I can´t really get the message through.

Cheers


"Funny" Robert

[Martbee]

VOTE already !!

I'm curious... Did I vote for the winner? Did my vote made any difference ?

[MPWR]

The results are in, counted, and posted. So, what did you think of the 'blind style' voting? Did you like the objectivity? Was it boring, or more exciting?

I'd say it did change vote distribution. I doubt it would have changed winners, but it means that there were some very strong builds that got few if any votes. My guess is that sympathy voting was eliminated- in previous years some people who voted later might apply their votes to builds that hadn't received many/any votes (I can't say I haven't done this)- but this year of course this was impossible.

So I'd like to propose a new idea to consider for next year. Instead of voting for first second, and third, each voter would still have six votes- but be able to distribute them however they liked. So if you could pick six favorites, each could get a single vote- or if there was one you liked far and away more than any other, you could give it all six of your votes- or some combination thereof. Thoughts?

[KevHw]

I liked having it blind as it was great not knowing and having such suspense. As for the new voting system, it sounds good to me. Will definitely make choosing a bit easier considering the line-up of builds we had entered. Congrats people.

[taliesen]

This was my first MOTY as an entrant or a voter, so I don't have anything to compare to. BUT, I think it turned out nicely this way. I personally don't care for the proposed 6 points to a single model idea, though - I think there was a good spread this time around, and if you let people give 6 to a single build, I think you would have seen even more of 'Schumacher-esque' domination by the top few vote getters.

Some random thoughts for changes/debate:
- Allow two or three pictures of each model
- Add on some 'best' categories that each person can nominate a single build for (best paint, best race car, best curbside, etc) in addition to 1st/2nd/3rd - not necessarily for prizes, though.
- In addition to the 'best', score it so that the recognition could only go to those who don't get on the podium. Of course, now that I write it out, it sounds dangerously like the 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality they teach our kids these days . . . so maybe not
- Ban Alex entirely (KIDDING!!!)

[360spider]

I actually think that we shouldn't try to fix what's not broken. Current voting system worked well for some many years, I don't think there is a reason to change it now. My .2 cents.

[mrawl]

I might as well chip in. I think it is broken. I think Andy is onto something, I like the 1..6 idea, but need a bit more convincing about the allocation thing. I found it very hard to vote 1,2,3, especially as I had followed some of the whips, but not others, so it almost felt fairer to treat it like a photo-contest.

I don't like different b/w 1st and 3rd (1st = 3 x 3rd? really?, your 4th best out of *50* scores nothing? really?) I know it evens out to some extent, but we do see an explosion at the top and a very strong emphasis on the number of 3 votes as opposed to the number of voters. We could choose the number of votes and the scores to achieve a balance - eg, 2,3,4 (1st = 2 x 3rd, nah...), 3,4,5 points (hmm, maybe...), 1..6, yeh, seems ok, or 48,49,50!!? hmm, maybe not...

Also, some entries are clearly detailed, some are not, and some you have no idea about, so I think we should link to the WIPs. That way people are voting for the build, the detail, the style, the speed, everything, instead of just voting for a photo. I know it makes voting a more difficult task, but hey... It's impossible to be blind anyway, everyone knows the "popular" models.

Well, anyway, it'll be just as great as ever whatever the rules, so no big deal

[voyageur]

There are up- and downsides to everything. If there are about 50 entries it is extremely hard to pick only 3 favorites. Blind voting is IMO the better way. Linking to WIP threads would counteract it a little, I guess.

To make things a bit more even in terms of giving curbside models a fair chance against full detailed ones, we could think about splitting the contest in two sections: full detail and curbside. Six votes for each section, whether in 3-2-1 or free schemes to be debated. I think this would give curbside models like the (e.g.) Subaru Hippo Sleek Wagon a chance to compete. Otherwise it might happen that people are thinking "Why should I enter my best curbside - I have slight to no chances with it anyway". It's all about fun and most people enter not to win, but to see builds where they didn't follow the WIP threads. But it's more fun if you have a chance, isn't it?

Just my

[Martbee]

Blind voting all the way baby !

I don't even want to know who I'm voting for !

[CrateCruncher]

Being a newbie here I jumped in with a last minute entry because there was a plea for contestants along with a threat to cancel the whole thing if more didn't emerge. That seemed bizarre to me considering there are hundreds(thousands?) of car modelers registered on the forum. In hindsight, I think the last minute surge of great entries was more due to an implied promise of rules reform, than procrastination and I predict that without drastic changes MOTY will face far worse participation next year.

I think MOTY in it's current form is more peoples choice award or "election" than model contest and like all elections it goes to the most visible guy/model with the biggest fan base - usually the incumbent. I agree with MRAWL, the 3/2/1 vote system exaggerates most popular by distributing points unevenly. I'll add, the "can't vote for your own entry" rule also discourages voting because the entrants can't even cast any votes without hurting themselves. At least political candidates can vote for themselves.

In order to fix this AF needs to recognize the potential of a real contest, set forth a concrete vision on what they want to accomplish and decide what kind of resources they are willing to devote to it. With 12 months between now and the next one this is the time.

I have been competing in IPMS events in Texas (...never met Alex Kustov...) and while I admit they hand out too many plaques in far too many categories there is an attempt within the rules to encourage all individual's to participate at all levels and develop new skill-sets within their interest. It also encourages veterans of the hobby to keep building. (Incidentally, the Indian entry which got 6 votes in MOTY, won Judges Best of Show 3 months ago in the Austin IPMS contest against 364 real models using real judges.)

I was always told never complain unless you have a solution. Here's what I'd suggest to start:
#1) Separate the MOTY into it's own award category called "Peoples Choice Award" administered through the usual blind survey format.
#2) Appoint experienced builders as REAL judges that cannot be entrants. Yes, deliberation can easily take place in cyberspace.
#3) Develop STANDARDIZED judging criteria and standardized photographs for entrants (front beauty shot, left 3/4, Dash close-up, etc) Photoshopping not allowed and influence of expensive photographic equipment should be neutralized to encourage less affluent entrants.
#4) Have a reasonable number of awards and categories that recognize accomplishment in many areas and skill levels like:
*Judges Best of Show
*Best Engine
*Best Paint
*Best Curbside
*Best Full Detail
*Longest Distance Traveled (kidding)

I'll close by saying that AF has accomplished something no other English-based car website has done that I can think of. It's attracted a seriously talented group of car modeling hobbyists from all over the world to interact, learn, grow and share. There are new people showing up daily. With a motivation to improve this annual Contest and the right nurturing it could become the best car model venue on the planet-and grow some add revenue too. Without reform it will only serve to discourage and demotivate members from future participation in MOTY and the website in general. This is not an emotional rant but an attempt to voice our present shortcomings and foster further discussion.

[360spider]

Originally Posted by CrateCruncher

Being a newbie here I jumped in with a last minute entry because there was a plea for contestants along with a threat to cancel the whole thing if more didn't emerge. That seemed bizarre to me considering there are hundreds(thousands?) of car modelers registered on the forum. In hindsight, I think the last minute surge of great entries was more due to an implied promise of rules reform, than procrastination and I predict that without drastic changes MOTY will face far worse participation next year.

I think MOTY in it's current form is more peoples choice award or "election" than model contest and like all elections it goes to the most visible guy/model with the biggest fan base - usually the incumbent. I agree with MRAWL, the 3/2/1 vote system exaggerates most popular by distributing points unevenly. I'll add, the "can't vote for your own entry" rule also discourages voting because the entrants can't even cast any votes without hurting themselves. At least political candidates can vote for themselves.

In order to fix this AF needs to recognize the potential of a real contest, set forth a concrete vision on what they want to accomplish and decide what kind of resources they are willing to devote to it. With 12 months between now and the next one this is the time.

I have been competing in IPMS events in Texas (...never met Alex Kustov...) and while I admit they hand out too many plaques in far too many categories there is an attempt within the rules to encourage all individual's to participate at all levels and develop new skill-sets within their interest. It also encourages veterans of the hobby to keep building. (Incidentally, the Indian entry which got 6 votes in MOTY, won Judges Best of Show 3 months ago in the Austin IPMS contest against 364 real models using real judges.)

I was always told never complain unless you have a solution. Here's what I'd suggest to start:
#1) Separate the MOTY into it's own award category called "Peoples Choice Award" administered through the usual blind survey format.
#2) Appoint experienced builders as REAL judges that cannot be entrants. Yes, deliberation can easily take place in cyberspace.
#3) Develop STANDARDIZED judging criteria and standardized photographs for entrants (front beauty shot, left 3/4, Dash close-up, etc) Photoshopping not allowed and influence of expensive photographic equipment should be neutralized to encourage less affluent entrants.
#4) Have a reasonable number of awards and categories that recognize accomplishment in many areas and skill levels like:
*Judges Best of Show
*Best Engine
*Best Paint
*Best Curbside
*Best Full Detail
*Longest Distance Traveled (kidding)

I'll close by saying that AF has accomplished something no other English-based car website has done that I can think of. It's attracted a seriously talented group of car modeling hobbyists from all over the world to interact, learn, grow and share. There are new people showing up daily. With a motivation to improve this annual Contest and the right nurturing it could become the best car model venue on the planet-and grow some add revenue too. Without reform it will only serve to discourage and demotivate members from future participation in MOTY and the website in general. This is not an emotional rant but an attempt to voice our present shortcomings and foster further discussion.

I completely and strongly disagree with that. AFMOTY is what it is, and what it has always been - AF best MODEL of the year, not best engine, not best interior, not best whatever. If we do it like you suggest, it will turn into yet another model contest, conducted over the internet (what could be worse).

Assign real judges? We couldn't get people to vote (we got a total of shameful 63 votes TOTAL, and not even all people who entered the contest voted!), and you are talking about assigning people to judge every single model and discuss every one of them, then compare it to others and come up with a winner? Utopia. That will never happen, and never will be objective.

MOTY has been a success for over 5 years in the way it is, now why we are talking about changing the rules suddenly? I simply don't get it. You say that 3/2/1 vote system exaggerates most popular by distributing points unevenly. Why would we want them distributed evenly? Everyone gets a plaque, like IPMS? I simply don't get this mentality, that is exactly why I never go to IPMS events :-)

Sorry if all of the above sounds a bit rough, I just strongly feel that AFMOTY is one of the last objective contests held over the net and decided by everyone who wants to cast a vote, and changing its format will ruin it.