Has anyone made it out to the track this year?

[kjewer1]

I see a couple things to note. I'm going mostly off the 20 psi log, since the first one looks like it only goes to 3rd gear? This does appear to be an AWD too based on 3rd gear mph but it's hard to tell at such low rpm. I don't know why, but for some reason I can't recall what you drive. Oh, shit, just noticed you added a signature. That answers that

The timing curve is too aggressive early in each gear. In other words, the starting and ending timing values look good, but it ramps up too fast. I Would shoot for a straighter line. Sometimes I even go for somewhat of an "under" curve. You don't want too much timing while the cylinder pressures (airflow/rev) are still the highest. The timing starts early in the gear and fades, which seems to validate this theory. 2nd and third gear really show this, the classics "stairstep" decay rate.

Second, I'd rev it out higher. I'd have no problem rasing the rev limter to 8k so you can shift at 7500 without worrying about hitting it. The 14b is maxed at 30 lbs/min, but keep reving it out to 7500 anywa to take advantage of gearing. Plus I don't think the turbo is maxed out as early as it seems.

Looks like you might have a boost leak? It seems odd though since your MAP and Boost line up fairly well, but the WBO2 is waaay richer than the AFratio. Boost leak is the most likely cause. Have you checked it out lately? I See 2200 feet in the boost est, is that accurate? I Also see some MAF Comp fuckery going on, perhaps thats why boost lines up? I'd look further into this, something seems odd.

No lift shifting is always worth 2 tenths or so on small turbos, in my experience. Might bump you in.

I's say that by straightening thigns out, launching better (I'd recomend 5k to 5500 rpm), and reving higher and NLTSing you've got mid 12s capacity easy

[scottsee]

Originally Posted by kjewer1

I'd rev it out higher. I'd have no problem rasing the rev limter to 8k so you can shift at 7500 without worrying about hitting it. The 14b is maxed at 30 lbs/min, but keep reving it out to 7500 anywa to take advantage of gearing. Plus I don't think the turbo is maxed out as early as it seems

You might laugh at this, but I've never in 3 years taken it past 6500rpm. of course, I've also never had a problem with it, still has factory 7bolt at 150psi on all 4 @ 125,000 miles. One thing to mention is, I had my stock michelin tires at 25psi front/22psi rear.

Looks like you might have a boost leak? It seems odd though since your MAP and Boost line up fairly well, but the WBO2 is waaay richer than the AFratio. Boost leak is the most likely cause. Have you checked it out lately? I See 2200 feet in the boost est, is that accurate?

I do have a good sized boost leak from my SSautochrome elbow flange to throttle body & O-rings on 3 of my injectors. I have the TB gaskets, and plan on replacing them when take off the uicp & install the h20 injector. I would like to do the O-rings with new injectors but can't fit them into the budget next month. I do plan on running meth eventually. I might just have to suck it up and install 4 new O-rings and insulators and wait. Yes, 2200 is accurate at the track.

I Also see some MAF Comp fuckery going on, perhaps thats why boost lines up?

Thats correct, took me along time to get it right! Is that a bad thing? I just wanted GM33bar and BoostEst to line up. I had a feeling I had to ajust those sliders on my 2g maf because of my boost leak. I don't know why I need to a just my 50hz & 150hz so much for my LTFT's to be at 0-1%, but whatever.

No lift shifting is always worth 2 tenths or so on small turbos, in my experience. Might bump you in.

Early last week I enabled clutch cut but kept getting knock during shifts! I posted a log on the dsmlink forum about it (bad tune). Every time I've tried using it at any rpm I got knock. I just don't know enough about it to overcome the problem, So I just disabled it.

I've got a lot to learn. Thanks for taking the time to help me. I do greatly appreciate it.

[scottsee]

Well, made it out agian tonight. They didn't have lights tonght, just a couple of hot girls flagging cars. I raced about 8 cars, 6 of them were DSM. I beat ad SRT-4 with NOS by 2 lengths & Corvette by 5+. I got my ass handed to me when I raced a 1g 50trim by 5-6 lengths. I also lost to a twn-turbo supra by 1-2 lengths, he bairly got me. The most impressive car out their tonight was a 1g gsx running a GT40r on slicks waxing street bikes. That an a shelby cobra that posts on my forum whos in the low 9's.

I got pretty well tuned on 20psi w/h20. The M4 injector I think is just to small to controle the knock. I can't lean up more then 10.5:1 with 17.2deg timing at 7200rpm. The best all around log I had tonight was on 17psi,10.5:1, 18.3deg timing @ 7000. all the rest of the logs I seemed to all ways have 1.5deg retard. I'm going to replace my injector next month with maybe a m5 or m6.. I'm not sure. I don't know what the fuck happend but I also started breaking up on the way home under boost. I turned the PSI down from 19 to 18, to 17, to 16 before it went away. I've going to replace the plugs tomarrow and see wtf's going on.

Notes: I don't know what it is about NLTS but I knock like a somebeach and getting timing pulled between every shit with it actavated. Boost leak on o-rings, all 4 of them. Dsmlink Speed value seems to be off, I was trapping alot faster speeds... I'm itching for a larger turbo after seeing a GT40r in person. Oh, and Antilag suck on a 14b, but still pretty fricking cool to play with.

Dsmlink Logs. Must have access to Dsmlink forums...


best log of the night
20psi w/h20
Car breaking up under boost

[kjewer1]

The best log looks pretty good. The turbo is pretty clearly maxed out. Is the 3.3 bar accurate though? 17 psi seems low (especially since I don't see cams in your sig). The speed sensor looks dead on to me, looking at the speed at the top of each gear. Also, are you running any "fuel" with the water injection? Your percieved airflow is lower even lower than the 3.3 bar, which should lean you out, but your WBO2 is a good .5 leaner than the AFratio calc. Any idea what's up with the discrepancies? The knock on the NLTS is pretty normal, and usually doesn't hurt anything since it starts to decay immediately.

I've got the NOPI/NDRA event next weekend, and with any NOS components installed I'm stuck in Turbo Street class, according to thier rules. I'm not deinstalling the whole kit... Then the weekend after that is the Shootout. Holy shit!

[scottsee]

I don't know man... It's possable the 3.3bar map isn't reading an accurate boost signal, but's only 2 months old. My vac at idel shows 10-12in/hg via my autometer while my 3.3bar shows -15.. My autometer has been off for the last year sitting at 1-2 psi wich would make it about the same as what my MAP is reading. I've never got a strait answer on if GM MAP sensors accurate at idle..?.. My Antilag rockets up-to 5.1deg retard and stairsteps down to 2-3deg retard and never goes away. Dave said timing minupulation for NLTS is 'in" the elusive v3. Now that I have a good tune I'll play around with it more. As for any discrepency's I'm sure they're do to my lack of knolege and/or experience. I have no fucking idea... No bumpsticks..

LOL, good luck at NOPI. Jet it...

[kjewer1]

Well, NOPI came to town this weeked. What an awesome event. Second round results here. After the third round of qualifying it looked even worse for me Here is a cut and paste from the local board to save me a few minutes.

What an awesome event. Incredible.

First, the NOPI guys combined with NED did an awesome job running this show. This was nothing at all like a regular import event. The announcer announced everything 20 times. No way you could miss your class, or anything else for that matter. Despite the constant screw up of names and towns and a couple extra Ts in Massatwoshits, I really liked the announcer. Tech was smooth. And the track was unbelievable. 120 degree track temps with air temps in the low 80s, combined with awesome prep work, resulted in several new records for pros (almost all of them backed up the same day or today in eliminations), sportsmans, and most club members.

I was seriously outclassed in Turbo Street, as expected. But it gave me a chance to run a new best in every possible category. First pass of the day was 11.62 at 121, backed up with a 11.63 in the other lane (had to qualify in both lanes). I upped the jets from what was a strong 50 shot (closer to 60) to a 75 shot, and it really woke the car up. I think I might be spraying enough now to get some of the cooling effect and other benefits. Third qualifier had some knock on the stutter box that didn't allow the nitrous to come in until the end of second gear, 11.8 at 121. Stuck around for one pass in the open session around 8, and got a mean launch. It was a tranny breaker for sure, ratcheting all the way through first (not quite wheel hopping). Ended up with an 11.52 at 122 on a 1.59. New best ET, MPH, and 60 foot (for this car, and snow tires). I thought about going for that 11.49 but it just isn't worth it. Packed it up and went home. Someone snagged my gas can and 3/8th hose too, WTF? Mike Riz to the rescue with extra hose and another gas jug.

Left the party at Mikes early, around 10, and headed back to Worchester. Made it back at 9 am today, and found out that the 11.62 put me in the 9th spot for an eight car field. 8th was a 11.1. The top 4 were all in the nines with the number 1 qualifier running a 9.2. Oh well. Pump gas runs in open session sounded like a good time. Pulled a 1.62 and ended up with a 12.3 at 110 on my everyday tune and 22 psi. Another new set of bests.

So many people ran new bests, the Post your ET thread should be getting busy soon James Lomardo did well, Panos did some sorting out and did well, Greg Bidderd made many full passes finally getting some things sorted out, a couple guys broke into the 11s for the first time, Leon Rittman and Chris Nicolas cleaned up in Power Street, and many more. Bill unfortunately had trouble still, but we just yanked out that motor. And no disciplinary action was spared, it took a well deserved beating on the way out.

It was good seeing such a strong DSM turnout. And hangin out with Joe was a good time as usual. That car is badass...

This was one of the best weekends of racing I have ever had, despite not qualifying and getting burned to s***. A very successful event, and I can not wait until next year. It's too bad the SO is so damn close, I almost feel like I've had my fix and don't need to make the long trip I don't think the POS EVO will be competitive in ESA either, but hopefully I can break the 12.0 curse without the NOZ.

[Thor06]

Holy hell Kevin! A fuckin 11.5? DAMN man, congratulations!

[kjewer1]

Thanks It is definitely a big milestone for this car. Hard ot believe it's now only two tenths slower than the 2g, but of course the 2g had hte mph for a 10 second pass, I just didn't get a chance to launch it since the motor went while tuning. Still strange to me though. I'm now at the point where I have to decide where I want to go with this car. I'm ~25 thousandths away from needing a cage. I could up the noz a touch and make it official but I'd rather get booted in style. I'm thinking go big or go home at this point. We'll see what I can get done this off season. For now the only goal I have left for this season is to break my 12.0 streak without nitrous. 11.8 would be nice. I'm going to attempt it at the Shootout, since I will likely need to run at that level just to place top 3 in ESA.

[NOFX0617]

Congrats Kevin....You deserve all the good that comes to you....especially for all the help you have given out in this forum...I know I have read countless posts by you...and they continue to come in....How long ago did you get NAAAWWZZZ? LOL

[scottsee]

Isn't 11.52 a record for that turbo?

[kjewer1]

Thanks I got the nitrous installed for the June import event up here, but had some issues with getting DSMlink to actuate it. I had it all sorted out by the July import wars where I ran the 11.82 at 118.82 on a 50 shot. I upped it to a 75, and the car really came alive. It really seems to like the nitrous!

There is one other guy on DSMtimes.org with an 11.50, and then there is Curt Brown (www.cbevo.com) running 10.59 at 127 on the stock turbo. I have no idea how he does it. He tends to set records on every turbo he runs though. I've got some plans for the car this winter, and I will probably keep the stock turbo on for the first half of next season, so I plan to better this time. The only thing I have to worry about is caging a car I still owe 25k on Shep tranny and a Tilton clutch are a definite, but I'm thinking about building the motor.

[scottsee]

I'm not doing somthing right.... Or somthing is wrong with my car. I can't seem to break out of the 13.2 mark. I upped my studderbox to 5000, I'm getting consistent 1.80 0-60' times, 20psi, shifting @ 7200rpm, little or no knock, 17/20 deg timing advance, 50/50 meth/h20 M7. 93+IDC @ 10.8 AFR (11.2 actual AFR with correction factor).

The very last run of the night I turned the MBC as far as it would go (21-22), leaned the AFR out 2 more clicks, @ forgot to turn my meth switch on. I was pissed. I was lifted off the throttle 3 times due to the CEL, ran a 13.4 @ 90mph.... I was their... oh well

[kjewer1]

I'm having diffucluties as well. The car ran teh balls at NOPI, and has shit the bed since. The following weekend at the Shootout it ran like shit. Took it to the track last night and ran slower on race gas than itusually runs on pump gas. Tried the nitrous to see if it would still trap what it did at NOPI, and couln't get a single full pass, had to get out of it and coast to a 17 second run a t like 50 mph every time. WTF. I've checked everything I can think of and can find nothing wrong. Time to go back to my methods with the 2g. Throw more money at the car

[scottsee]

LOL. Thats where I'm going right now; upto a friends house to take things apart and find out whats going on... Don't know if anyone has the time to check out a couple diffrent logs.. I didn't put these up on the link forum, so everyone should be able see these one's. As long as their server dosn't go down.... Agian....

Log of 20psi with 22deg timing advance, all water.. 13.3E/T
Log of misfire probably due from to high of IDC 50/50 meth..
Log of Final run trying for 12's pass, but forgeting to turn on my injection...

[kjewer1]

I just looked at the first log, I really don't see anything wrong with the tuning. That AFR curve is sweet! Nice and flat. The turbo is maxed out, so there is nothing more that can be done with boost. That's as much timing as I run even on race gas. You're taking it to 7500 in each gear. Looks like some mean wheelspin on the launch though. Hmm, it does appear to get richer in the lower gears, is that just a WBO2 temperature thing? It also seems like you should have more MPH with these settings. I was running a similar setup to this and trapping 106. What were your traps? The log only goes to ~95. That seems like it may not be right, it will be very hard to hit 12s at that speed. Typically need to be over 100. Do you have cams? I used to get 25 psi out of the 14b on stock cams, not sure what it tapered to though, boost logging wasn't an option back then Airflow appears to be decently accurate...

At any rate, it looks like there is some gains to be found in the launch. Remember that every tenth you take of the 60 is at least 2 tenths at the end of the track. So a 1.70 would just drop you in. A 1.6 would be better, but it took me many years to be able to pull those off consistently.