What is the POINT for abortion?

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Don't be so sure it's over yet. But I will say this has been a good debate and we haven't fallen inot flaming each other. I'm not going to cut and paste your post so I can take it apart but I will address some things.

that it has. its a rare thing when an abortion debate remains civil. cheers to us.

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Ok first off I agree the sides will never find a middle ground to when life starts. The problem is to define life. You define life by using cognitive self awareness. I define it another way and no I don't think life starts the second the sperm touches the egg. Life starts when the cell splits.

and as such, because we disagree on such a huge level, i will not attempt to drag this our farther....i merely wish to clarify a few things.

Originally Posted by Flatrater

My training as a auto tech teaches me to find the cause of a problem and not to fix the symptom only. Fixing the sympton will only lead to the same problem coming back, but if I fix the cause the problem will never return.

my dad is the same way (harley mechanic) but right now, ill aruge there is no fix for the cause (100% effective birth control) and so a "bandaid aolution" is all we got, because lets face it. we can live in ideals and believe noone will have sex before they are ready fr kids, or we can accept reality and understand that people are ready for sex long before they are ready for kids, and one shouldnt have to entail the other.

Originally Posted by Flatrater

If you fail to see the difference by using birth control versus not using it because it is not 100% and all is lost.

make no mistake, i always have, and always will continue to use birth control. while it may afford limited protection, a little is better than none.

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Some people can't handle it and they shouldn't have kids.

but they should still be able to have sex, should they so choose.

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Sorry about using the bestiality stab but I was reading a news piece on a man who died having sex with a horse. ...I was reading this the same night I posted about bestiality and it was on the tip of my mind since I was laughing so hard about it. So in my warped humor I had to use it.

now that is rather amussing. i didnt take it personally. no harm, no foul eh?

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Now I will tell you alittle about my oldest son, he is a special needs child. At the age of 5 he was dianosed with Autism. It's been a tough time raising him. I can say I had many sleepless nights thinking about him and how to deal with it. Now if I knew that he would be this way before he was born I still wouldn't of consented to an abortion. I love my son and he has filled my life with stress, anger, bitterness and joy, The joy will always outweight the rest. I am thankful he is part of my life. BTW he is also 18 years old and just graduted High school with a high "B" average going to regular classes. No specail classes for him.

for this i applaud you. that is a major feat. most people give up on autistic kids, but you proved to be the better. well done. in all seriousness. give your son my congratulations. it is well deserved. i wish i could shake his hand or something. i am, in all honesty, incredably impressed an humbled. i made the same average and the worst ive got is ADD.

Originally Posted by Flatrater

So if you want an abortion go for it I won't stop you.

that is good to know. you still respect the ability to choose.

Originally Posted by Flatrater

But you are not the one getting a life sucked out of your organ.

your right in that im not the one getting something sucked out of me. ultimately i have no say in whether or not my significant other gets an abortion. were that situation to arise, it would be totally up to her, and id back her 100%. but i do disagree on whether or not its a life.

and because we disagree on such a basic level, i consider this debate to have reached a dead end (unless you want to take this outside.....to the philosophy forum, and turn it into a "point of life" debate, which could be fun).

it was good times.

[Flatrater]

I agree it's time to move on because next year we will be having the same debate only because another memeber made the same topic about it.

But I am rather curious about one thing? You mention the fac tthat birth control isn't 100% effective yet abortion isn't 100% safe. You bypassed that issue more than once.

[lazysmurff]

its because pregnency isnt 100% safe either. carrying and delivering a baby is just as invasive and prone to problems as an abortion.

i didnt intentionally skirt the issue, just forgot about it in the midst of everything else. sorry.

until next time...

[Flatrater]

At least we have the teacher topic now to debate.

[RSX-S777]

The original question is "what is the point of abortion?". The point is, IT'S A FREEDOM. Freedom granted by the U.S. Supreme Court. Freedom granted by a country who's very citizens bask in the FREEDOMS they say make it so great. The cornerstone upon which it was founded. I find it repugnant that the same ultra-patriotic right wingers who run around cherishing their other freedoms (I assume?) and supporting our wars for "freedom" everywhere else in the world (*cough cough....IRAQ!) are so quick to decry it when it seems to conflict with the official stance of the Church. Last time I checked, this was not a theocracy and we do not all share your conservative religious views and moral outrages. So enjoy your freedoms wholly or, as you are so fond of saying, move to another country. Preferably one where the government and the Church are one-and-the-same and religious law dictates what you can and connot do with your life and body. That will save you the trouble of having to think up clever arguments to rebuke those who disagree with you. Better yet, hang in there, because it seems that the very country you all know and love is headed down that very road.

P.S. Does Taranaki ever pop in anymore? I miss that guy...