Italians rescue hostage,get fired on by US on way to airport.

[SniperX13]

well, in reading that MSN report, Italy's government even disputes her claim that is was "deliberate"

but, thats alright, the same people on here that are so quick to condem the US and take the side of the victim, yet appear to not once consider the other side....

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by SnoopisTDI

I doubt anyone is getting courtmartialed for following SOP(or ROE, I guess it would be). The people operating the checkpoint say the car was going much faster than they admit.

Here's the think Snoop, when people fuck up, some of them tell lies to cover their own asses.A court martial would see the full story and could establish whether this incident was misfortune,negligence, incompetence or wilfullness.

[Raz_Kaz]

Originally Posted by SniperX13

well, in reading that MSN report, Italy's government even disputes her claim that is was "deliberate"

Obviously, or that would make things real sour between the two countries. They aren't gonna accuse the US of anything.


Heres the 2 sides, her's who was there and the marines who shot at the car. No one else's opinions on the situation matters.

[Twitch1]

"the Journo ex-hostage went beyond saying it was not accidental, she said it was DELIBERATE"

And just because she says so it automatically must be true? You're a comedian!

Here's some more fiction for you:


I'm sure she would know that George Bush senior and Bill Clinton are actually behind it. The traveling together regarding tsunami relief is just a big cover for a clandestine world wide conspiracy to waste anyone they feel like. They're the 2005 version of "I Spy." Clinton's heart operations were fake too. They implanted nuclear bombs, GPS and bionic parts so he a Bush can run amuck bent on world domination.

"Heres the 2 sides, her's who was there and the marines who shot at the car. No one else's opinions on the situation matters." Ain't that the truth!

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by TRD2000

SO NAME ONE OR ACTUALLY PROVIDE SOME SORT OF NON COINCIDENTAL INFORMATION TO BACK UP YOUR ACCUSATIONS. OR ARE YOU SOMEHOW EXEMPT FROM THAT?... AGAIN

Here is one for you.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/070198.php

Then we have this quote about our commie implying no warning shot were fired from http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe.../il.manifesto/

The driver twice called the embassy and in Italy that we were heading towards the airport that I knew was heavily patrolled by U.S. troops. They told me that we were less than a kilometer away...when...I only remember fire. At that point, a rain of fire and bullets hit us, shutting up forever the cheerful voices of a few minutes earlier

Then later on the story changes to

However, Fini said the car was “traveling at a speed that couldn’t have been more than 25 miles per hour.” A light, he said, was flashed at the car after a curve and gunfire started immediately afterward. It lasted 15 to 20 seconds, he said.

So which one is it did they get a warning shot and light or didn't they?

And lastly what about the pics shown of the car with no bullet holes in it?

[Flatrater]

"Liberals will now paint the American troops as bloodthirsty devils, while harder right [c]onservatives will say it is all an Italian communist plot and that the U.S. can never do wrong. I wonder what Eason Jordan would say about all of this.

"Here is a thought: take some American kids in their teens and twenties, and arm them to the teeth. Drop them into a hell where at best their Iraqi 'friends' on the ground likely only hate them and wish them death and a speedy trip out of their land (bodybag or otherwise). You are vastly outnumbered, and you have no real idea who is the enemy, because there is no clear front line – in theory you already 'won' the war. You don't understand the language, the customs, and wish every minute you were back home. At any moment you can be blown up by a car bomb, suicide bomber, or be captured and beheaded on a global webcast. You are shot at from all directions. Your own government has not made it clear when all of this mess will end, and simply staying alive, keeping your buddies and platoon brothers alive, matters most. Maybe you believe in the mission, maybe you don't. You do know that being alive matters, and that getting home, if home can ever be returned to after being in that hell, is a high priority.

"Put me in that position and I would open fire on anything that came within a few hundred yards of me. I would take no risk on my safety, or that of my friends. Eat lead and die you scumbags would be my motto. Fear would practically replace any philosophy that drives me now. Raw fear could make me do almost anything, right or wrong. I never want to take that test. To have restraint in Iraq is to almost be superhuman, to put one's own life beneath that of an unknown, unseen enemy. Who among us is that saintly? For a soldier on the ground I can not believe that it ever really is about politics – it is about what is happening at that moment, who is coming at me now, and what I must do next. There is You, and there is the Other. If the Other is no Friend, shoot."

[Flatrater]

From the CFLCC ROE (RULES OF ENGANGEMENT)

1c. Do not target or strike any of the following except in self-defense to protect yourself, your unit, friendly forces and designated persons or property under your control:

Civilians

d. Do not fire into civilian populated areas or buildings unless the enemy is using them for military purposes or if neccesary for your self-defense. Minimize collateral damage.

2. The use of force, including deadly force, is authorized to protect the following:

Yourself, your unit and friendly forces

Enemy Prisoners of War

Civilians from crimes that are likely to cause death or serious bodily harm, such as murder or rape

Designated civilians and/or property, such as personnel of the Red Cross/Crescent, UN and US/UN supported organizations.

Remember[:]

Attack enemy forces and military targets.

Spare civilians and civilian property, if possible.

Conduct yourself with dignity and honor.

Comply with the Law of War. If you see a violation, report it.

"That's extracted from the ROE Card, handed to everyone who was in theater. It has a lot of wiggle room, and that wiggle room is why what was, in effect a bush shot, was deemed legit"

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Please stop flaming flatrater, he's very sensitive about being insulted.

Some of us believe we can have a debate without the need for iinsults. Some of us can't do anything but insult You can pick which one you want to use.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Some of us believe we can have a debate without the need for iinsults. Some of us can't do anything but insult You can pick which one you want to use.

As usual, no middle ground.You are either with flatrater, or you are out to get him.Some of us see you as occasionally irritating but largely irrelevant.Please learn to deal with it. Your signature alone identifies just how desperately paranoid you have become.Nobody's out to get you, it's only the fucking internet for christ's sake.If you can't handle the way politics getts discussed both on the net and in real time, I would suggest you find another hobby.

[codycool]

My god....I can't even read the entire thread without puking on myself...The nerve of some people to try and tell a combat vetern who so happened to fight with a Marine line company in the jungles of Vietnam. I fought in Iraq, and I saw things like this happen. I would much rather kill an Iraqi, or Italian agent who fails to stop than risk the lives of my fellow Marines.

Most of you are ignorant on the damn topic anyways. The Italian government did not even notify American authorities that the trade was taking place. Then the damn Italians go through all this trouble and spend all that money only to not stop at a check point. I mean how stupid can you possibly be??

Its no shock to me that you Trd2000 would claim that this is American troops fault since you have never had to killl a man, and since the only imformation you recieve is through the media, and we all know how good that is. My combat experience speaks for itself, look it up if you please. 1st marine division, 3rd battalion 5th marines, India company...

[Twitch1]

Bro Cody- That's all I was ever trying to say is that unless you've been in a combat situation you don't know how you would react. Plain and simple but people went on trying to "imagine" what they'd do or pretend they know some ficticious Robert's Rules Of War manual. If you wen't there you don't know. Period. I don't know what I'd do since my thing was the jungle and not urban environment combat. That didn't stop a bunch of nuts for spouting off that they DID know.


I attempted to explain that the ONLY thing you care about is protecting your buds. You know Cody after a certain peroid in country you really don't care about yourself and counting down days till home is stupid cause that'll get you killed for sure.

Dude, you KNOW you'll do anything- things you'll be ashamed of perhaps- to save your buds and get home. I can't speak for Iraq vets but you probably know what that means to us old Nam guys.

Stick around son! We can use your expertise and your opinion is as welcome as anyone's. This den of theives and liars can use another good man! You'll just have to feel sorry for them cause they're so ignorant.

Memory ain't good as it used to be and lot is blocked out but I went through Pendleton and was attached to Kilo Company of 3rd Recon Batt. of 3rd Div. up north in the area of Khe Sanh and mostly to "points west."

Semper Fi

[SnoopisTDI]

Originally Posted by SnoopisTDI

I have a feeling this story will quietly disappear, and we'll never really know much about what happened.

Has anyone heard anything lately about this?

[taranaki]

looks like it's still being investigated in Rome and the Pentagon.Good to see the Italian Prime Minister announce his intention to withdraw troops from the region.

Curiously, little mention has been given to a Bulgharian soldier also killed by American military incompetence on the same day.The Bulgarian government is also setting a timetable to withdraw its troops, making it the 15th nation of the coalition to draw itself out of Bush's Vietnam in the sand.

[Twitch1]

Boy, we sleep much safer at night knowing you're on the job.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Twitch1

Boy, we sleep much safer at night knowing you're on the job.

Another pointless interjection from the guy who has lost every argument he ever started in this forum....If you wamnt to debate, debate.If you just want to throw your toys, carry on, but know that you are no longer relevant.