Octaine equivlent of Nitro Methane

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

methanol eats away at rubber so you'd have to raplace anything with rubber.

I know I am planning on replacing anything rubber in the system, but I don't think that is going to be a prob since water injection systems are designed to have alcohol in them anyway. But if I can find a stronger anti-detonante stronger than methonol that I can readly get I would gladly use it insted, I know I can get 116 octaine with toluine and 126 octaine with methonol. Now I am trying to find the octaine rating of karosine, diesel, and nitro methane. I would also like to know what kinds of whiches brews they used back in the turbo F1 days that allowd them to get 1,100hp out of a 1.5L engine I know they were primarly toluiine but what else made them that tough I don't know, because they had to be over 116 oct.

[kachok25]

Well I still have not found the octaine rating of nitromethane but I do know that it is higher than methonol since it reportedly has a less tendency to knock at lower concentraitions of the 126 octaine fuel. It is supposedly so slow burning that it cannot completly burn inside the combustion chamber of a top fuel dragster before the exaust valve opens again! Hence the flames from their exaust. I am just guessing here but I think diesel burns faster than that. I am still woundering how much octaine I could add to pump gas by mixing it with this stuff in the intake runners. I'll keep yall posted as to any other cool facts that I find.

[kachok25]

OK here is another site that is informative yet frustrrating. http://www.pricechemical.com/default.htm it says that mixing in 1/2% of nitromethane with pump gas will allow you to run a 14:1 CR!!! Yikes that stuff is potnet! if memory serves it would take about 100oct racing gas to handle that kind of compression, and if 1/2% nitromethane can raise 92oct to 100oct that would make it the most potent fuel addative on earth to my knowlage. If this is true following the principal that all mixtures react in proportion to the liquids in them that would give nitromethane an octaine rating of over 1600 if it brings the gas to 100oct and 1200 if it only gets it to 98oct. These numbers seem unreal and I need to do some more reserch but it looks promising. Nitromethane does not mix with gas without an addative and nitoromethane cannot be used in high concentration without having to remap your ECU since it burns at such low AF ratios compared with gas. It does mix well with alcohol though. There is also an oil addative that goes in your gas that also slows the combustion on this site, I wounder how close that is to my idea of using diesel to slow the combustion, since diesel is also an oil fuel. I just need to find a way to suspend it in gas.

[kachok25]

OK one downside found, apparently when nitromethane burns it creates several funky acidic fumes that break down your oil, I have only heard about this on one site and it might be here say but since they are not selling anything I am inclined to beleve them over someone that is.

Update: OK I am now reading from another source that Nitomethane drasticly reduces the octaine rating of your gas I don't know what to beleve here sombody saying that it is better than methonol, and another site saying that it is worthless and dangerous, all I know is that the more i read the more confused I become so if anybody has any experence with this stuff please tell me what you know but I am going to quit reading about it online because it is giving me a headache! Does slower burning mean more knock resistant? If it is slower burning how can it be prone to exploding permaturly in the cylinder? If it is more prone to detonation then why do companies but it in commercial octaine boosters? And Summit racing defines it as an extreamly high octaine fuel used in top fuel dragsters.
I have found some cool hydrocarbons that would make intresting fuel addatives though
RON MON
cyclopentane 141 : 141
toluene 124 : 112
meta-xylene 162 : 124
para-xylene 155 : 126
3-ethyltoluene 162 : 138
1,3,5-trimethylbenzene 170 : 136
2-methylbutene-2 176 : 140
1-methylcyclopentene 184 : 146
1,3 cyclopentadiene 218 : 149
dicyclopentadiene 229 : 167
2-methylbutene-2 176* (113) 141*
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/

[Moppie]

Have you had a search of this sub forum?

There is a really good thread hiding in here somewhere about running nitromethane, and the hows and whys of when it will and won't work.

[kachok25]

Ok thanks

[curtis73]

Kachok, looks like you're getting close to an answer. I just turned up a lead on some EPA and DOT regulations concerning nitromethane. Since its so volatile, using it on the road is a federal felony Up to 15 years in jail Basically you'd be transporting enough of a volatile gas to require a permit, and be transporting it without a commercial hazmat license in a non-approved container.

Methanol is still illegal on the road, but just for EPA reasons, not because its DOT-prohibited.

The other fuels you mention like diesel will cut down on power. Injecting diesel in a fine enough mist requires thousands of psi. I think my powerstroke operates between 1800 and 2500 psi. Then, without the intense heat available from the extra compression it doesn't burn well.

Kerosene would have very similar qualities to diesel, heating oil, and jet fuel, so they can probably be ruled out.

Another thing is that burn rate and octane aren't necessarily related. There are measurable differences in flame speed, but it shouldn't be used as a determining factor. Diesel fuel burns very slowly, but its octane equivalent is (from what I understand) lower than gasoline. Think of octane rating as how much energy it requires to get it burning, or in the textbook, delta +H or activation energy. http://www.gcsechemistry.com/rc23.htm

Higher octane ratings raise the peak of that curve in the above diagram so that it requires more energy to start. The activation energy is supposed to come from the spark, but if that curve's peak is too low it gets enough energy from surrounding sources that it ignites itself.

You'll want to select a burn rate that is nearly the same or faster. That will let you set the timing curve more conservatively and ensure that all of the additional fuel is spent in time for the exhaust valve to open. Choosing diesel might limit your RPMs and lower the overall octane rating. Methanol is probably the best choice. Pretty quick to burn, higher octane, easy to vaporize, legal to transport.

[kachok25]

Thanks for the imput, yea I finnaly found the octaine rating of diesel and it is 35-50octaine depending on its centaine grade, but karosione is the primary ingredent of alot of octaine boosters. If nitromethane is iligal haow can they put it in octaine boosters??? Maby it is only legal at cartain concentrations I would still like to evauate the clames of that company that say that 1/2% nitromethane mixed with primum gas can withstand 14:1 CR but I somehow doubt that (never trust a sales man) Oh I just found an intresting alcohol injection kit it caims that all you need other than the $500 kit is EGT meter, and a wideband O2 sensor and a stock WRX is ready for 24psi of boost! I found a guy online that owns one and he highly recomended it, but like always I am still skeptical and reserching. If you find anything else intresting let me know.
BTW the EPA does not have to know aabout my methonol injection, because the system that I saw actualy uses the winshild wiper tank, and even has colored methonol to make it look real

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by kachok25

If nitromethane is iligal haow can they put it in octaine boosters??? Maby it is only legal at cartain concentrations

Exactly. As a non-hazmat CDL driver, I am allowed to carry up to 5 gallons of certain substances like alcohol, gasoline, lighter fluid, and paint thinner. I can carry something like 50 gallons of kero, diesel, or oil in an approved container. I can't carry any nitromethane since any quantity of it is illegal without a hazmat endorsement, but like fat in food products, if its under 2% they don't have to list it. If there is below a minimum of nitro in that fuel booster, its legal to transport. DOT calls it something like insignificant quantities.

[kachok25]

Oh cool I'll remember that next time I am transporting drug LOL! Hey check out this system I was talking about and let me know what you think of it http://www.smcenterprises.com/subaru.htm this is kind of like what I was talking to you about earlier just without the advanced "vari-cool" computer system.