The Welfare System

[Porsche]

welfare pisses me off, it ges bums a second chance that will most likely be wasted on Booze or something, I'm with gan$tarr and Yogs and all the others on this one. Did any of you Canadians here about that guy a couple years back who was on welfare? It turns out he lived under a staircase in am apartment complex and he saved most of his welfare check every month, he about 2 Million CDn, after a number of years and then tried to buy a 500K house, that's what I call abusing the system!

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by Porsche

....Did any of you Canadians here about that guy a couple years back who was on welfare? It turns out he lived under a staircase in am apartment complex and he saved most of his welfare check every month, he about 2 Million CDn, after a number of years and then tried to buy a 500K house, that's what I call abusing the system!

*LOL*Thats funny... Hell at least he was smart enough to invest it... Thats just intelligence right there.. Yes its wrong, but its still smart..

[Sleepy]

i dont agree without totally getting rid of welfare there are those people who trully need it and us it as it was setup to be used, but there are also the people who abuse the system which give the truley needy a bad name. Welfare serves a good purpose but it is abused and this needs to be changed however bad it is there are still those who truly need it and we shouldnt turn are back on those people

[gang$tarr]

if they made better decisions when they were younger they'd have more than enough money........ but i bet only like 5% of people on welfare actually REALLY need it and want to work.

yeah i remember i was watchin some show on tv last year on like fox files or somethin (how come that show isn't on anymore?) and they were showin all these people on welfare in california with like mansions and shit... i was like what the hell? they were talkin about the scams they were pullin one guy had a ferrari i think

[Sleepy]

i know there are people who abuse the system but you have to take care of the 5% or so and making better descions when there young you ever make a mistake when you were young i know i did i just happend to get very lucky and find a well paying job if not who knows what would have happend

[Racing Rice]

Originally posted by Sleepy
i know there are people who abuse the system but you have to take care of the 5% or so and making better descions when there young you ever make a mistake when you were young i know i did i just happend to get very lucky and find a well paying job if not who knows what would have happend

I agree with you.. Thats why I said they should make it hard to get welfare.. There are cases that need it.. But there are more that dont need it and have it anyway..

[gang$tarr]

yeah you're right...

but still i don't think that somebody who skipped 4 out of 5 days a week at school deserves welfare, the should have chosen to go to school then they wouldn't need welfare and they'd have a good livin..... i don't think hard working people should have to pay for people that screw up their lives

but i totally agree that some people need it, if there are people that have to leave their country for some odd reason.... they can't get a good job in our countries so they'd need welfare it's not their fault they got screwed over by their country... that's the best example i could think of i know there are other ones that make more sense

[gang$tarr]

Originally posted by DantesInferno
It's a hard lifestyle that throws a lot of stereotypes and negative images on a person.

i never said it wasn't, i just said that hard working people shouldn't have to pay for other peoples mistakes.... if somebody snorted coke all through high school and didn't go to class, i don't want to pay for them, that's their fault. I also didn't say those are the only type of people on welfare, there are lots of people that need it and deserve it. Just that we shouldn't have to pay for the people that screwed themselves, if it's not the persons fault then no problem take the welfare, but if it's your fault that you weren't succesful then i'm not paying for you

[V.S.]

I couldn't really spend the time to read through this whole topic, but seeing as nobody replied directly to this post and it introduced a lot of good stuff...

Originally posted by texan


Of other note, I also think we should have nationalized health care and a social security system, a democratic government's 1st priority should be to serving it's people. I am often amazed at the fact the most powerful, richest country in the world cannot offer all of it's own people health care, when much lesser (lesser meaning smaller and not as wealthy) countries can.

But what you fail to mention is that those other countries offer healthcare service probably below the standards americans are used to, and definetly below the perscription prices americans pay. Its only because America is willing to have the consumer pay so much for drugs, therefore funding drug research, that other governments can give it away at much lower prices. So yes, the US could adopt the healthcare system of other countries, but then the whole world would be at a loss for medicin

Of course we just recently started trying to balance the budget, a feat the average 16 yr old can perform on his checkbook but evidently not the average politician (kinda makes you wonder).

Balancing the budget is obviously not all that big a deal. What have deficts brought the US? Its the only superpower around, and hell of a lot more economically powerful/stable than any 16 yr old I'm not saying there's no benefit in balancing the budget, just that it might not outweigh the cost.

[Thunda Downunda]

Apparently at least up until only a few years ago wasn't the Cuban health system rated by the World Health Organization as being superior to the US?

Isn't the problem of welfare abuse as much to blame on poor administration/management as on slimy rich opportunists featured in lowbrow TV shows? Even the impoverished have to eat somehow and hunger and need can drive people to do desperate acts. Couple the inexorable rise in social dysfunction, mental illness and substance/gambling addiction with alienation and disenfranchisement .. and sad to say but the life you save through having an accurately targeted 'social safety net' may well be your own, or your neighbours

And not just through violence (implied or otherwise) but affecting your standard of living through the threat and increased insurance premiums from property theft etc. Plus lets not forget all those hideous and highly infectious diseases swirling unchecked through the community - your community - because the poor cannot afford to access health care. Like it or not we all share this world, even with undesirables and 'non-producers'. Whats the alternative? Let fellow countrymen starve to death before your eyes? Or hide these unsightly wretches from view in ghettos so as not to perturb. Should we be more 'humane' perhaps and take the hint from times gone by and line 'em up against the wall and shoot? Where do you stop? What about all those non-productive older folk, slumbering in taxpayer sponsored nursing homes - get rid of them too? Let's exterminate our hindrances .. just like the Nazis did!

quote from V.S.
"It's only because America is willing to have the consumer pay so much for drugs, therefore funding drug research, that other Governments can give it away at much lower prices"

The American Govt. has for some years now been fighting tooth and nail both through the courts and through threat of massive sanctions and trade and even aid embargos against Africa and other poor nations to protect the US Patent System and thus the patents and interests of US drug companies holding said patents on anti-AIDS drugs, to prevent the African Govt. from manufacturing affordable generic anti-AIDS drugs. This spectacularly callous indifference to suffering clearly puts "patent principles" (read profit) over the death of literally untold millions .. so far.

Yet with the current anthrax scare, your Govt. proved its hypocracy by announcing/threatening the German drug company Bayer that it would break the patent held by Bayer on Cipro, their anthrax antidote .. unless Bayer capitulate (which it did) and reduce the cost of Cipro from I think US$4.70 to one lousy dollar.

Comments?

[blatch]

No one should be payed unless they're doing something for the benifit of others (business). Education should be free though.

[Thunda Downunda]

But what happens if 'they' (ie: people ) weren't paid? True poverty is a generational abyss from which few potentially productive and engaged citizens can ascend

Is the inevitable enforcement/incarceration/social cost cheaper than welfare?

You're right about free education, as there's a blatant statistical correlation from low education levels to both the high birthrates and immature onset of pregnancy and motherhood from uneducated impoverished young females; which cyclically self-repeats

[Swonder67]

Welfare helps balance the economy. Some people out there abuse it, and that really sucks. I would say maybe 5% of the people that get welfare actually deserve it. Welfare is not suposed to be a way of life. It's suposed to be a temporary helping hand until people can get back on their feet.

[DantesInferno]

I'm really attempting to avoid coming back here armed with facts, figures, and case studies, rather than posting half-ass opinions saturated with capitalistic prejudices and unfounded grievances.

[YogsVR4]

Originally posted by Thunda Downunda
The American Govt. has for some years now been fighting tooth and nail both through the courts and through threat of massive sanctions and trade and even aid embargos against Africa and other poor nations to protect the US Patent System and thus the patents and interests of US drug companies holding said patents on anti-AIDS drugs, to prevent the African Govt. from manufacturing affordable generic anti-AIDS drugs. This spectacularly callous indifference to suffering clearly puts "patent principles" (read profit) over the death of literally untold millions .. so far.

Yet with the current anthrax scare, your Govt. proved its hypocracy by announcing/threatening the German drug company Bayer that it would break the patent held by Bayer on Cipro, their anthrax antidote .. unless Bayer capitulate (which it did) and reduce the cost of Cipro from I think US$4.70 to one lousy dollar.

Comments?

A short comment for right now. To use the slippery slope method of reasoning you employed, the following would apply. If patents are not protected then why bother having them. Since there is no incentive to innovate and reap the rewards, we should all sit around and wait for others to provide for us. No need to be creative or work hard. It'll be done by someone else. Its not the manufacturing of drugs that costs money. Thats the cheap and easy part. Its doing the research. Going through the rigerous testing and FDA approval stepss that cost billions and billions of dollars. If the companies that are doing this work cant make a profit then we will be better off.

Lets just go over all the amazing drugs and innovate techniques coming from communist countries........... hhhmmmm......... nope...... cant come up with any. Ok lets try some dictatorships............. ok, nothing there. How about some of the monarchies......... let see....... not since the mid 1750's...... How about some facsists.............. not there either. How about that, companies that can be innovative and reap the rewards develop the drugs that save millions of people. Dont assume I want anyone to suffer because of a lack of medicine. But dont think running people out of business is the way to help everyone in the long run.

Yes PROFIT is what is developing these drugs. Maybe you've dedicated your life to helping AIDS patients all over the world by working long hours for no pay, but the rest of us would like to make a living.