First NICE car.

[Vurnakes]

I think i might be the only one that loves the looks of the new GTOs, i love the way it looks like a normal car but will destroy most other cars. The ONLY problem with it is its gas millage, i would like it to be a tad higher but for what it is i can't complain. how is the 05 Nissan 350zs with the tire threading? also how bad is its interior?

[Zachp911]

Originally Posted by Vurnakes

I think i might be the only one that loves the looks of the new GTOs, i love the way it looks like a normal car but will destroy most other cars. The ONLY problem with it is its gas millage, i would like it to be a tad higher but for what it is i can't complain. how is the 05 Nissan 350zs with the tire threading? also how bad is its interior?

Read the review to get a better idea.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/niss...chlanding.html

[nastyNater]

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

i dont think he wants a souped up grand am. no disrespect to the gto but its so bland. it doesnt life up to its heritage.

i agree. anything but the GTO. worst-looking in the bunch.

[Vurnakes]

After looking into the BMW 3 series, i noticed the M3... that seems like a very nice car. Its looks are right up there with the other cars mentioned and it seems that if it is a BMW it is a sturdy reliable car. I know the 3 series is, but how is the M3 with reliability?

[broddie50]

If I was your 18 year old son, and you were going to be buying me a car within the 25,000-30,000 dollar price range, I would put you in a head lock, force you to a Ford dealership, and have you by me a 03 Cobra j/k! Personally, from the choices you've mentioned, I'd pick the G35... it's a great all around car for the money.

[DinanM3_S2]

Originally Posted by Vurnakes

After looking into the BMW 3 series, i noticed the M3... that seems like a very nice car. Its looks are right up there with the other cars mentioned and it seems that if it is a BMW it is a sturdy reliable car. I know the 3 series is, but how is the M3 with reliability?

Well, as an M3 owner I feel obligated to answer this one. The M3 has been a great car for me. I have had next to no problems with it, but while I have had a good experience, some people have engine trouble. The S54 engine is a 3.2l that puts out 333hp. To do this, the M3 runs very high compression. As long as you don't run them up past 7,000rpms every time you drive it and take care of it properly, they are generally very reliable cars.

Putting the reliability aside, the M3 is an amazing car. Few cars share a luxury aspect so well with a sporty aspect as well. The interior quality far surpasses the 350z, GTO, S2000, WRX, etc, and is significantly better then the G35 imo. They are as quick in a straight line as the GTO, have godly handling for a 4 seater, but also make a great daily driver.

The only problem with them as far as you should be concerned is the price, which is very steep for a new one considering your price range. A better choice for in your price range might be a 330i/330Ci which are very much like the M3, except 100hp weaker and with a softer suspention.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by Vurnakes

After looking into the BMW 3 series, i noticed the M3... that seems like a very nice car. Its looks are right up there with the other cars mentioned and it seems that if it is a BMW it is a sturdy reliable car. I know the 3 series is, but how is the M3 with reliability?

Its hard to pinpoint BMW reliability. Its very difficult to compare apples to apples. I don't really want to get into a discussion on this (as it sometimes incites) but the reliability numbers that you get from sources like Consumer Reports have to be graded on a curve.

Picture someone who has a random 90s American mid-size car like a Buick. Chances are, the owner is a little older and has always had an American car of a similar caliber. The improvements over the years have pleased them, and the Century they're driving now is a far cry better than the 58 Buick they grew up with. They may not even notice a whine in the stereo, the blown dash light, or the cheap carpet.

Contrast that with someone who's always owned BMWs. Often times they DO take their cars in for warranty repairs on just such small items. Usually, the dealership will handle the claim since the premium price paid for the vehicle takes these things into consideration.

For this reason, the reported number of repairs on a typical BMW and a run-of-the-mill Buick may appear similar, however often times the BMW's reported problems may be of a more superficial nature. The Buick may have gone in for a new alternator, an exhaust leak, and a broken seat track, whereas the BMW went in for a dash light, a brake squeal, and a loose rear view mirror.

The numbers get further skewed by the fact that often times the Buick dealership will try telling the owner that the exhaust leak is "normal wear and tear" and maybe get out of their obligation, whereas the BMW dealer will often gladly accept the car for a loose rear view mirror.

Having ruffled the feathers of everyone... I say that to get to this: BMWs have taken a lot of hits on the reliability front. I say, its BS. People also say that they are expensive to repair. Grrrr. BMW is structured differently than any other car company. If you buy a Bimmer, drive it, and take it to the BMW garage for service, you'll pay through the nose to the tune of almost tenfold what you should. If you take it to the local shop, they'll usually either turn you away or charge you a huge premium on service. This premium is a stupidity tax on the rich dummies who think that BMW requires some special kid gloves. If the garage refuses to work on it, its because they have an unenlightened owner who has subscribed to all the hoopla about Bimmers.

In truth (if you do any of your own maintenance) BMWs are a dream to work on. They think of darn near everything to make the mechanic's job as easy as possible. Oil filters and drain plugs are easily located and accessed. All electronic connections are routed up near the top of the engine so diagnostics and repairs are easy. Normal maintenance is made easy and doesn't require any special tools. Gaskets are always first quality rubber/steel units that don't require any silicone or voodoo to keep things from leaking. Hoses, wires, and lines are routed away from common maintenance items.

Parts are another thing that people confuse as being expensive. The truth is, Bosch Germany makes parts for BMW Germany, who sells them to BMW North America, who sells them to BMW USA, who sells and distributes them to BMW dealerships. Until they make it there, the prices are astronomical, but the dealerships tack on an additional 100% anyway. A good example of this pricing is a coolant temperature sensor I bought. Directly from Bosch through a parts store it was $6.38. From a BMW dealer it was $59.60.

I bought a 1987 325 iC with 156k miles and it was by far the cheapest car to maintain I've ever owned. Try that with a 156k Buick

As far as an E46 M3; The engine will last forever if you take care of it. The suspension will probably need new bushings at about 175k. The fuel pressure regulator will go at about 180k. CV joints will need rebuilt at about 200k. If you get a manual transmission, expect some play in the shifter at about 130k. The quality of materials also tends to usually exceed that used in even the high end Japanese cars. Germans have easier access to higher quality leathers. Properly maintained, BMW leather seats, carpet, dashboards, and other interior bits will retain their appearance longer than most other vehicles. About the only thing I prefer about the Japanese offerings over the BMW is paint quality. In the past few years Nissan in particular has found some new ways of applying paint that really have brought their finish quality beyond Mercedes and BMW.

Now, I'm off my soapbox about Bimmers. Resume normal debate

[drunken monkey]

and that's the long version of what i try and tell people.
the short of it is that the BMW is ultimately better made in the first place, hence its higher price.
what's the point of buying a cheaper car if you spend more on it in the long run?

not sure how it is in the US but in the uk, a car's history is very important when it comes to selling on. what this translates to is, if you are buying a new car, especially something that is pricey as a BMW is, you'd want to have a full BMW service history because it will help you get a better price when it comes to selling it later.

[curtis73]

I agree, but it hasn't stopped me from consistently buying worthless piles of junk off Ebay Have you seen my cars?

Its just whatever trips your trigger. My trigger is tripped by unique old American iron. Others like the reliability of the Japanese cars, still others prefer the driving and engineering of European cars.

I must say, however, although the market is still very diverse, much has been done to close the gap. I think any of the cars we're talking about would be fine additions to the stable.

[kman10587]

I'd say that any new car on the road can be considered very safe and reliable, so it shouldn't be too big of a concern. However, different manufacturers still have their different highs and lows. For example, while BMWs are known to use very high-quality engine and suspension parts, and their interiors are not bad at all either, electronics has always been a very big problem for them. While I'm sure that there are those very particular BMW owners out there who would take their car in for a loose rear view mirror or slight brake squeal, there are plenty of others who have experienced all kinds of electronic gremlins. iDrive, in particular, has been oft maligned as the worst of the computerized consoles on the market. It's just not well-designed at all, and doesn't have that air of flawless design and ergonomics that the Japanese cars tend to. Neither does the rest of their interiors. The 3-Series may be an absolute joy to drive down a twisty road, but good luck finding a cup holder or two for that late night fast food run. My point is that, as magical as the BMW enthusiasts will make the 3-Series sound, it is far from the perfect car. As curtis73 even admitted, if you don't do your own maintenance, you're probably going to pay out the ass for it, and if you aren't willing to peruse local shops for parts, expect to pay out the ass for those too at the dealership. And it's just not as practical or comfortable to cruise in as its Japanese competitors. It's the kind of car you either love for its build quality and driving experience, or hate for its everything-else. I really don't see much reason to buy a 3-Series over a nice G35 or IS 300. You get nearly the same driving experience, cheaper parts and servicing, more customer-focused dealers, and you're not paying $4,000 extra to say "Look at me, I drive a BMW! I'm better than you!"

[CBFryman]

ehh the 13B's didnt do too bad... people just say that beccause its a 1.3litre engine running 20mpg.
if you CAN find a 3rd generation RX-7 that is still in good condition with a willing seller you have struck gold. thoes things are hard as hell to find.

All supra's are either ragged out or are stupdily overpriced now-a-days.

s14 240sx's with a SR20DET swap is a good option, motor and labor should be less than 7,000 and you can pick up a nice S14 for not too much. Ive driven one with the OEM motor in it and they are very confident cars in the corners.

My personal tastes draw me to a 2nd Generation Mazda RX-7 (89, my birth year. he may want to go 87, same car just older) with a JDM 13BTT swap.

The JDM (japanies domestic market) motors such as the 13BTT and SR20DET generally have less than 35,000 miles on them and they dont have room in japan to rag them out, its just they dont pass strict smog requirements in japan after 3-4 years or 30,000-40,000 miles.

But swaps may be a little scary to you and your son even though, like i said, with labor it wil end up being less than 7,000 in most cases. any good and reputable performance shop in any metropolis should know both of thoes swaps like the back of their hand (especially the SR20DET swap).

Have you looked into AWD cars such as the WRX?

BTW insurance is so high on integra's because they are the #1 stolen vehicle in the united states.

[kman10587]

Not only do Hondas get stolen a lot, they are looked upon by the majority of young people nowadays as race cars. The GTO may be much faster than a '95 Honda Civic LX, but the GTO wasn't depicted as an illegal street racer in a certain movie; rather, it's ragged on by ricers as being "bland" and "a souped-up Grand Am" and "not living up to its heritage". So that'd explain the sky-high insurance on Hondas.

[CBFryman]

yep. and because the integra GSR is sorta quick they KNOW that a good portion of younder drivers driving htem are doing so because they think they are fast and will drive them like a race car 24/7, causing tickets, wrecks, excetera, of which the insruance company will have to pay for.

if it where me id stay away from all things honda except for the S2000 and the bikes, yes that includes the prelude.

id also stay away from the 350Z. the Infiniti G35 is a great car with a great (meaning large in this context) price.
as much as i hate to say it, if he likes the look of the new mustangs a new Mustang GT is pretty sporty. but a far cry from that vett...
Hyundia's newer Tiburons are quick little cars that can easily be made quicker. putting 150hp to the wheels off the line the v6 GT modles have a nice/sporty interior and a good look from the outside IMO. with simple exaust and intake the pig rich engine can gain as much as 15hp to the wheels. there are also turbo and supercharger kits that can have the thing putting 300hp to the ground, long term reliability then comes into question, however. so i would keep it naturally asperated, cams and headers along with that intake and exaust and maybe new heads would be the limit of modifications putting him around 200whp with a great sound, good looks, and sporty interior.

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by kman10587

Not only do Hondas get stolen a lot, they are looked upon by the majority of young people nowadays as race cars. The GTO may be much faster than a '95 Honda Civic LX, but the GTO wasn't depicted as an illegal street racer in a certain movie; rather, it's ragged on by ricers as being "bland" and "a souped-up Grand Am" and "not living up to its heritage". So that'd explain the sky-high insurance on Hondas.

why do you wanna call me ricer cause i dont like the gto. i do like them and they are fast but you cant deny that they look like a grand am. i dont think theyre great but there pretty good. id take one.

and i hear tiburons are pieces of crap. only 175hp out of a v6 thats not too great probably has one of the lowest outputs of any v6 on the market today. hell camrys and stuff put out over 200 on their v6s and there family sedans. the tiburon is supposed to be a sports car. maybe hyndai will put the 235hp v6 that theyre putting in the new elantra or whatever in the tiburon. and the new mustang is "pretty sporty" yea right its a full blown sports car 0-60 in 5.2 seconds id say thats better than pretty sporty definiteley WAY faster than a tiburon. and why would you stay away from the z its definiteley way better than a tiburon as well.the new mustangs are not meant to compete with the vette. there not in the same league. stangs are like 28000 dollar cars and vettes are like 50k.

[CBFryman]

ya...the tiburon also goes for a LOT less than a 350Z, 350's arent the greatest handlers nor thefastest of the bunch.
I am giving the guy variety, maybe he doesnt want his son in a 300hp RWD vehicle.
and maybe his son wants to have a "tuner" vehicle instead of one that is fast right off the lot. on top of that i never put the tiburon in the class of the mustang, i called the mustang pretty sporty and the tiburon quick.

and you price comparison is completely assanine, the only reason i mentioned the vett is because he said his son had been driving one regurally over the summer.
you give the base price of a mustang and the VERY well furnished price of a c6. even though the absolute base modle c6, which is around 45k, has quite the aray of features.
on top of that the c6 would walk all over the new mustangs like a picnic,of course they are not in the same league, both in straight line acceleration and in the twisties. the c6 ran a course in germany, 50 miles, in about 25min where the average Porsche 911 Turbo runs about the same. you do the math on the average speed.
the c6 is a lot of car for the price, not to say the mustang isnt but you get what you pay for.

and FYI a tiburon is a good comparison for a GSR...and a naturally asperated 3rd generation rx-7...both of which where mentioned...