What happend to outdoing the Evo??

[Jared_80]

No... the "truth remains" that they are equal. Why can't you get this through your head? You keep saying the EVO is faster in the slalom and skidpad, do you realize how little that has to do with real performance? The STi has a more advanced drivetrain, the EVO counters by stickier tires and more aggressive suspension. The EVO is an excellent buy if you can get one for the $26-ish they're supposed to cost. The STi costs more, but it brings more to the table. Adding stickier tires and a more aggressive suspension to the STi to cancel the EVO's advantage is an EASY upgrade, while adding an EVO 7 drivetrain (to equal what the STi has) is quite costly.[/QUOTE/]


WTH!!! Do you know what you are saying the slolom and cornering have everything to do with proformance! The slolom reflects the cars reaction to the drivers imput! The lataral G force is the messure of absolute friction (grip) these are the heart and soul of the sportscar. What planet do you live on? Yes the STi does have a more advanced drivetrain than the US spec Evo. But the J spec also has an electronicly controled center diff too. And it is only a matter of time before we catch up. To be fair I will admit that the STi does have a soother ride and more mild drivetrain which makes it a superior daily driver, but at the limit the Evo shines, and outruns the more "advanced" car. By the way the STi does not have the worlds most advanced drivetrain there is still one better, do you know what it is?

[MB38]

OMG WTF U R SO WORNG! I CNAT HAVE N INTTELIGENT ARGUMENT WITH PPL LIEK U!

not directed at either party, it was just necessary

[Jared_80]

hat was pretty funney. But you are trying to pass me off as stupid to protect yourself from the harsh reality that the Evo is faster and I am right. We both know better. I am making an open challenge find me stats from a reliable source showing that the STi can beat the MT numbers. (don't quote me some home grown website) If you can I will admit that I was wrong and if you cannot than you must admit that you were wrong. Do you accept or back down.

[kfoote]

Originally Posted by Jared_80

... By the way the STi does not have the worlds most advanced drivetrain there is still one better, do you know what it is?

There is one better that I know of in a production car, though that particular system is no longer made, the company simplified it because it was deemed overkill for their current generation of cars, and it cost about double what the STi currently does 10 years ago.

BTW, I am assuming that you're referring to the drivetrain minus the engine. There are several cars that arguments could be made for if the entire engine-to-wheels package is considered.

Oh yeah...per request earlier, EVO SUX, STi RULEZ

[MB38]

Glorious. The addition of the "x" and "z" to those statements made it all the more informative.

Well, just to even it out.

STI SUX EVO RULEZ U SUKC!1!!!!!!11111

[LjasonL]

Originally Posted by Jared_80

WTH!!! Do you know what you are saying the slolom and cornering have everything to do with proformance!

Cornering is extremely important to a cars overall performance. Slalom and skidpad aren't Let me ask you a question, have you ever been on a track, or are you just basing all this from what you read from Motor Trend (who, as we already established, don't even actually run the times they post). Your argument is based off what some magazine guy who had probably 2 days or less experience with both cars wrote he THINKS he could run on a perfect day.

The slolom reflects the cars reaction to the drivers imput!

No it doesn't. The slalom measure the cars ability to weave through a set of cones. Have you ever driven a slalom? I have. The cars width alone can be a major factor in getting a good slalom time, because it simply has to turn less to make it through the gates. Even acceleration power is a factor in a slalom test. A stock Honda CRX on those stock 13 inch all season tires can post similar slalom numbers as a Corvette, do you think that means CRX's handle as good as Vettes?

The lataral G force is the messure of absolute friction (grip)

While that's true, it is a minor concern is how well a car handles. How fast a car can lap a circle one time with infinite attempts matters little when you come to a track where the performance must be repeatable.

What planet do you live on?

I live in the real world, not magazine number land where you're stuck. Get out there and get some track experience, maybe then you'll understand why slalom and skidpad are so unimportant, you should be concerned with handling balance, predictability, confidence inspiring, and forgiveness. Guess what, I put a larger rear sway bar on my car. That makes my skidpad numbers worse, but my car is much, much faster through the corners.

But the J spec also has an electronicly controled center diff too.

"J spec" cars could wash themselves whenever they sense dirt for all I care, until it's here in this country it matters not to me.

And it is only a matter of time before we catch up.

Ah ha! I knew it. "Before we catch up". EVO troll!

To be fair I will admit that the STi does have a soother ride and more mild drivetrain which makes it a superior daily driver, but at the limit the Evo shines, and outruns the more "advanced" car.

I can build a track car for less than 10 grand that will absolutely embarass both of them on any track in the world. Therefore it matters little which one is a tenth or 2 faster, what matters is which one I could live with better.

By the way the STi does not have the worlds most advanced drivetrain there is still one better, do you know what it is?

Who said it does? There are a lot of cars with more advanced drivetrains, I don't know what you mean by "one" better. You're probably going to say something stupid like a Skyline has the most advanced drivetrain in the world, right?

[LjasonL]

Originally Posted by Jared_80

I am making an open challenge find me stats from a reliable source showing that the STi can beat the MT numbers.

1. Motor Trend did not run the times you read off their website or magazine. How many times do I have to say this?

2. I am making an open challenge to you to get off your ass and see how these cars actually perform instead or reading about it on the internet.

[MB38]

I think the BMW 7 series has the most advanced drivetrain in the world. Take THAT!

[LjasonL]

Originally Posted by ldelaysionl

He was replying to a post I made that I deleted because it would just lead to a bunch of "nuh uh EVOs faster", "nuh uh STi's faster", "well this magazine ran this" and "well I know a guy whos uncle ran this" crap.

Damnit, the flaming happened anyways

I should have just dropped it after that post

[ragnarok720]

Actually, the ej20, ej22 and ej25 are very proven motors. As a matter of fact, the "boxer" engine is used in tons of different applications today. Motorcycles a lot of times use the boxer design and have been for decades which proves that somehow they must work well if other companies and vehicle types use the motor and/or design.

[MB38]

I tried to bring peace to this thread. When that failed, i brought on sarcastic flaming.

OMG WTF LOL1

P.S. -

But as proven as the EJ motors are, are you actually going to argue that they're more proven than the 4G63?

[LjasonL]

Interesting, from EVO magazine's "car of the year"

Best Real World Cars...

1. Subaru Impreza STi Spec C
2. Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
3. Renault Clio V6
4. TVR T350C
5. Mitsubishi Evo VIII FQ-300
6. Nissan 350Z
7. Mini Cooper S Works
8. VW Golf R32
9. Mazda RX-8
10. Catherham R400 SV
11. BMW Z4

[ragnarok720]

Well, I'll argue that the design is more proven but ej serious motor is not. Each engine, no matter what type they are, are always different. The boxer engine in say a subaru impreza is gonna be slightly different in design than say a motorcycles. Give the EJ series of motor another year and i think people will really be surprised. It is a strong robust engine that has massive amounts of potential.

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by ragnarok720

Well, I'll argue that the design is more proven but ej serious motor is not. Each engine, no matter what type they are, are always different. The boxer engine in say a subaru impreza is gonna be slightly different in design than say a motorcycles. Give the EJ series of motor another year and i think people will really be surprised. It is a strong robust engine that has massive amounts of potential.

I did not say that they did not have potential I just said that their new motor is unproven and the 4g-63 is. It might have much more potential but it is not known yet.

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by ragnarok720

Actually, the ej20, ej22 and ej25 are very proven motors. As a matter of fact, the "boxer" engine is used in tons of different applications today. Motorcycles a lot of times use the boxer design and have been for decades which proves that somehow they must work well if other companies and vehicle types use the motor and/or design.

Where is the ej25 proven? It just came out a few months ago! I don't even know of a professional racer that uses it yet.