CR-VTEC discussion

[Miataracer]

why no more b16 crank?

[liquidflame8]

because you would lose displacement

[Jas_M]

Hey Miata, did you get the B18 put in yet?

[94tegRS]

ok, thats better for compression, a good question is, have you thought about tuning, what ECU program are you going with? I like the AEM EMS(never used any but from the details on the site it looks like it has TONS of functions) but runs 1500 bucks plus options, hondatra s200 starts at 295, but to tune it yourself you gotta add like 500 bucks more worht of stuff I think and i even think dual stage launch control is like another add on fee. and the Zdyne super ECU cost like 1k+

[Miataracer]

Originally Posted by Jas_M

Hey Miata, did you get the B18 put in yet?

started a post in the lets get technical forum... the main part of the swap will happen starting this weekend

[nickzed20]

Ok, guys… by no means am I a b-series expert. I just feel that there has been a lot of shit in here that just stood out as retarded. Some stuff I said might be wrong, but I highly doubt it. I didn’t want to do this, and quickly through info together off the top of my head to prove a point to some guys.

Upon further research, im sure anything else could be corrected.

As far as the actual CR-VTEC however, do you plan on de-stroking it with the B17a crank? Or no? You could either keep the shitty r/s ratio...

Why is the R/S ration on the CR-Vtec “shitty”? I don’t think its shitty… its all a compromise. It might not be as good to rev really high, but it definitely gives advantages in other ways.

OR I belive endyne will make custom lenmght high strenght rods to get you a near perfect r/s

I don’t quite understand what you mean by this. You want to keep the stock B20b/Z crank, but throw on some super-long rods? That doesn’t make sense. If it was that easy everyone would do it. Running longer rods would just have piston-to-head clearance issues.

Chances are I'd see about the custom lenght endyne rods as well... just imagine a 2.1L CRVTEC with a near perfect r/s!?

the only way to make 2.1L would be to stroke the engine even more or boring the cylinders. I don’t see how stroking the engine would “improve” the r/s ratio. If you are talking about going with a larger bore, that is possible with re-Sleeving. However you wont have a “perfect” r/s.

The b20z block is very turbo friendly

how so? How is it soooooo much better then doing a B18? It has skinnier sleeves.

B17 crank (b16 if b17 unavailable), ITR cams, JE rods and pistons (11 or so compression), B20z block, B16 head, Skunk2 throttle body, DC Sports 4-1 for b18, GSR tranny (LS for turbo), JUN flywheel, yada yada yada

Why would you use an LS tranny for turbo? This will just hold back your RPM, and slow down spool. Also, if going through all the trouble to make a CR-Vtec, just to turn around and throw a B16 crank into it is a complete waste IMO. Why not just get a B16 and sleeve it to the same bore, eliminating the hassles of vtec conversion.

In my opinion, why de-stroke it? A B17a crank will put it roughly at 1.9L... why use the B20 block if you're not gonna put out at least 2.0L? It would be easier and less expensive to go LSVTEC otherwise....

That completely defeats the purpose. Just doing an LS-Vtec instead of a B20 with B17 crank doesn’t make sense. You are talking about de-stroking it with the B17 crank to get a higher r/s. Why are you comparing it with the same r/s engine as you originally had, except with smaller bore?

But yeah, a t3/t4 on low compression with an LS tranny would be insane.... imagine a 60 shot on it to spool the turbo? Can we say 10's? Don't doubt it.....

I highly doubt 10s, you would have to make the chassis REALLY light, and have some super sticky tires. Even still, I don’t see it. This isn’t the fast and the furious where every car runs “10 seconds or less” y0~!

Skunk2: Intake Manifold, Cams, Titanium Dual Valve srpings, retainers
Spoon Sports Cam gears
CTR pistons
Overbored TB
JDM 4-1 Header
Comptech exhaust
AEM CAI

then the mandatory ignition/fuel uprades...

easily 250+ to the wheels........ an all motor monster.

No way that will yield anywhere near 250whp. I would guess, 220whp TOPS. I highly doubt that even, get a better cam... It doesn’t even have a PnP…. Go look for a 250whp b-series engine, and take a look at their mods.

but that extra .2L of displacement, coupled with low compression pistons will most likely make up for the absence of VTEC. Those .2L may not make much of a difference to start... but add FI and watch a 1.8L non-VTEC DOHC motors' HP pull far away from a 1.6L DOHC non-VTEC.

what are you saying? 0.2L displacement is A LOT. Its what makes the B18C faster then the B16A.

The B16 block is shorter then the b18, and as far as i know the B20 is just about a inch or so taller then the b18.

As far as I know, ALL B18s have the same deck height as the B20B/Z. The B20A, and B21A are the only b-series taller then the B18 blocks.

Originally Posted by Miataracer

wow... i cant believe how much bs was flying around in this old post.

Wow, someone who agrees. Maybe it is just because this thread is old? I don’t know, but its sad to see this as an archive where people can easily refer to the information.

[94tegRS]

I am not trying to proove anything you said wrong, just giving my .02

Originally Posted by nickzed20

I don’t quite understand what you mean by this. You want to keep the stock B20b/Z crank, but throw on some super-long rods? That doesn’t make sense. If it was that easy everyone would do it. Running longer rods would just have piston-to-head clearance issues.

I know with a stroker kit the pin boss is moved up on the piston so with the increased stroke, the piston doesnt go hit the head, you could probably have something done with stock stroke, but a longer rod and a moved pin boss, would be the same effect, just jkeeping the piston from coming in contact with head. but now we are talking about full on custon rods and pistons, and we are talking some serious dough there.

how so? How is it soooooo much better then doing a B18? It has skinnier sleeves.

I havent torn off a B18 head, but I know on my B20, all the sleeves are the same peice, maybe the B18 they arent, i would assume they were though so I am not sure why it would be better.

Why would you use an LS tranny for turbo? This will just hold back your RPM, and slow down spool. Also, if going through all the trouble to make a CR-Vtec, just to turn around and throw a B16 crank into it is a complete waste IMO. Why not just get a B16 and sleeve it to the same bore, eliminating the hassles of vtec conversion.

(this one is all guess) off he line it might take longer to spool cuz you have to get to a higher speed before the RPM's are at the point where youd get full boost, but once you are going, when you shift you willl never drop below the rpms you make full boost at, and if you had a quick ratio trans youd be shifting more often not keeping the turbo full spool, so wiht the longer gears you have a longer amoutn of time where you are making the power and it is better? maybe though if you had some setup like hondata and had full throttle shift to where you never let off the gas and let the turbine slow down the shorter gears might be better as long as you can shift pretty quick.

That completely defeats the purpose. Just doing an LS-Vtec instead of a B20 with B17 crank doesn’t make sense. You are talking about de-stroking it with the B17 crank to get a higher r/s. Why are you comparing it with the same r/s engine as you originally had, except with smaller bore?

exactly right, it would just be cheaper but not in any way better

As far as I know, ALL B18s have the same deck height as the B20B/Z. The B20A, and B21A are the only b-series taller then the B18 blocks.

as far as I know the B20 is the same exact block design as the B18 just a 3mm larger bore.

[GScivic7]

Originally Posted by 94tegRS

I havent torn off a B18 head, but I know on my B20, all the sleeves are the same peice, maybe the B18 they arent, i would assume they were though so I am not sure why it would be better.

Nope, the B18 sleeves are not 1 piece. That's pretty much the only bad thing about boosting a b20. The 1 piece sleeves. Get the cylinders resleeved and you have one stout engine ready for boost with a good amount of torque.

[94tegRS]

wouldnt one peice be better? seems like one contiinuous sleeve for all 4 cylinders would hold up better than 4 individual sleeves.

[GScivic7]

The 1 piece sleeves are a lot thinner than the individual ones, so they can't handle boost as well.

[94tegRS]

arent they only thinner though because of the bore, not because they are one peice? so the downfall isnt because one peice is weaker than individual but tht they are thinner because of the increased bore.

[GScivic7]

yah, cause they are thinner, I don't know if they were the same size whether they would stand up to boost any better or not though.

Here's a little write up straight from a Honda engineer about the 1 piece design. http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/jan96a.html

[94tegRS]

I never knew that the B20 was the first tocome with a one peice sleeve like that, at least thats what i got from this article.

[94civic]

Originally Posted by Phatwhippin_CRX

[url]

But this is what I;d do....

Skunk2: Intake Manifold, Cams, Titanium Dual Valve srpings, retainers
Spoon Sports Cam gears
CTR pistons
Overbored TB
JDM 4-1 Header
Comptech exhaust
AEM CAI

then the mandatory ignition/fuel uprades...

easily 250+ to the wheels........ an all motor monster.

WOW. i would think that since you have over 700 post that you would have been here long enough to know better. there is now way in hell that setp would make 250whp. it probably won't even touch 200whp. also the valve spring are not titanium the retainers are. i'm guessing that since you added the spoon cam gears it would add 15 whp cause its madd jdm yO! also if you think it would make that much power you should try looking for a better header like an-r, hytech,smsp,dtr,etc... and you should try looking for a better exhaust cause that comptech one isn't going to cut it. please think before you write something

[Miataracer]

I believe another slight problem with the 1 piece sleeves is that since they are connected they get hot spots where the two clyinders come together... I used to know of an EXCELLENT web site that had engine drawings and went through how the b20 was developed and its strengths and weaknesses but a while back I had to reload windows on my computer so I lost all my links. I haven't been able to find it again