God's Will

[MBTN]

If Bob dies from cancer, it's not because "god" wanted him to die, it's because the cancer spread in his body and killed him. That is simply it.

If he lives, it's not because you prayed, but simply because the treatment worked.

[Heep]

It's not necessarily to prove our dependence, more to remind ourselves that we don't always have to do everything ourselves. Think about it, do you like the person who thinks they are the best and that they don't need anyones help, or the humble person that can do things themselves, but gladly accepts help?

What I benefit from believing in God: I live a life with a purpose, I am worry free, and I'm going to heaven when I die. You probly don't believe in heaven, But I do, and I really want to go there. As to why God expects such trivial things, I honestly do not know. I'll ask Him when I get to heaven.

MBTN...you stay outta this

Yes, Bob died from the cancer spreading. But I believe that God originally created Bob (not directly, through ages and ages of people having kids) to have cancer, and knew at the beginning if he would die from it or not. He may also make His choice of whether he dies or not based on whether I pray for him or not.

Lol rebel (the last comment), I never thought about it that way.....

[i_rebel]

See, that's something to be applauded.

You can firmly state that your belief/confidence in God benefits you by providing you with a purpose in life . . . and you are free from worry.

I don't profess a belief in God, yet I have purpose, I have worries (as do you, but for now, you say not), but the end to my worries is to take action. Whatever action is necessary to alleviate said worry.

I'm quite sure that when you worry, you pray.

When I worry, I hustle . . .

I believe (and you have solidified this for me through this exchange) that religion is for the weak minded. I have yet to discuss religion or the terms thereof with someone who can show me solid reasoning for their beliefs. Further, all of the supposed benefits of a life lived "in the way of the lord", are equally available to the self-assured (confidence, purpose, etc.) or otherwise circumspect at best . . .

I think I'll start my own religion, it's commercialized enough that I too could capitalize on the weak minded . . .

Please don't be offended, but flame at will . . .


Stevie B
'93 G20 :sun:

[Adam]

quote:

Praying only works if you believe in God as an omnipotent being.

end quote

where does it say that? I never heard that.. where is that in the Bible?

AND by the way... it's called faith... faith is why we believe in God, and that he answers our prayers...

I know you are going to laugh at that, but evolution needs TONS of faith, because everything proves its falseness

[verboom]

Secondly, I've heard a lot of people say that all you have to do is accept God, or accept Jesus or whatever (depending on denomination) before you die. Of course, there's more to it, but that's the basic jist of what's necessary to be saved. Why? It seems to me that God would care for those who have lived a life of morallity than simply those that believe in him. I mean, it seems kind of arrogant of him.

Well, I have your answer, and it comes straight from the Bible. Matthew 20 is a parable of a man who owns a vineyard. Throughout the day he goes out and hires men to work in the vineyard, promising the first me a few dollars, and everyone else "what is fair". At the end of the day, he pays the men who have worked only an hour the same few dollars that the men who worked all day got. The men who worked the whole day grumbled at this, but the vineyard owner told them that they got what they were promised, and that it was his right to pay the other men what he so desired. This is just like your problem above. People who accept Jesus as their savior minutes before death have done much less work for him than those who were saved years ago, but God desires them to all have the same reward. I think he does this because he wants to have everyone feel as equals in heaven, after all, satan was an ordinary angel until he began thinking he was better than everyone else, and as a result, he tried to take over heaven, and was condemned to burn for all eternity in hell. Now which would you rather have? Equality or punishment? I guess that is what it all comes down to.

Matthew 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

[MBTN]

Everyone proves evolutions falseness? I think you have that backwards.

[Heep]

Now, now, lets keep the evolution argument out of here...we've already determined that it makes sense to an unbeliever and no sense to a believer (Christian), and vice versa. Adam is right that evolution requires just as much faith as belief in God, though.

For those that may not know, faith is basically belief in what you cannot prove. You sit in your chair, having faith that it will hold you up. However, you cannot prove that it will. We have faith that God exists. You have faith that evolution happened (however much evidence there may or may not be, it, like creation, cannot be proven, nothing can unless you were there).

Adam: No, it doesn't say that in the Boble, but if you don't believe that God can do anything, there is no point in praying. Perhaps I should rephrase that...Praying only makes sense if you believe that God is omnipotent.

i_rebel: I'm not offended because I see it differently. I should get my pastor on here to talk to you about religion. You might be impressed.

[MBTN]

OK, I'll just admit that you're wrong, and I'm correct. I have no problem with that. I'm finished with this argument.:o

[Heep]

Lol MBTN...

[Adam]

ok, it is getting old
ok, we are getting nowhere

but why stop... we're just getting into the juicy parts.. lol

[i_rebel]

That chair thing . . .

The proof is there . . . I can test the chair before I sit on it . . . I can see someone else sit on it . . . I can slowly slide my ass onto it (LOL) . . . these things will produce evidence which I can put my trust in.

For the most part though, each time I sit I sit in faith because I have learned that a chair will support me . . .

There is no such learning experience or evidence to allow the same to be true for belief in God, or "a" god for that matter. . .

Blind faith basically amounts to wishful thinking . . . at least from where I'm sitting . . .

Heep: How'd you become a moderator anyway?

[verboom]

But once you test the chair, you sit on it and relax, and after that, reassured by your test, you have faith that it will continue to support you. So it's right back where we started, you still have faith in the chair to hold you up.

[Lizard King]

The chair is solid and visible. Thats the difference. You actually have undisputable proof that the chair is holding you up. With religion you only find out if it works after you die.

[Heep]

True, true, but that's just an illustration so you get the jist of it. It can also be applied to many other things...love for instance. You cannot physically see love, but of course you believe in it. You have faith that love exists.

You may not have felt it, probly 90% or more of everybody in the world has not (yet) felt it, but conviction is just one of my evidences for God's existence. There are others, as well, most outlined in previous threads.

BTW...I became a mod through consistent and prolongned "attendance", lots of posting, keeping the peace, and working on a partnership deal....

[Lizard King]

Oh come on, love is an emotion.