Multiple Unfixable Problems! charging/tranny/too lean/etc.

[mark_gober]

Originally Posted by farns

CRAP.... so this thing is pretty much useless? I was hoping to start sifting through the "tons of codes coming out of the PCM" that Ford mentioned. Can't do a thing with this???

Farns,

Not to be too argumentative here, but you can pull codes while the engine is running. I've done it countless times. I've even pulled/cleared codes while I was driving down the road. The code scanner is a little slower, but it does do it. I'm not sure the advisability of it, but just from experience, it does work.

Having said that, if your car had thrown a code, it'd still be in the history. You can keep it with you and scan it when it starts acting up if you'd like. I hope you get some direction on this problem.

Mark

[serge_saati]

Did you remember which types of codes were the string of codes that Ford mentions?
It it was for the powertrain "P codes" you can pull the other codes with a better scanner (like MS310) when they will come back. Along with your 2 OEM trans codes.
But if it was body or chassis codes (B or C codes) you need a very top professional scanner tool (like the MaxiDAS DS708) for that, although it mention in MS300 OM these types of codes, your tool couldn't read them.
Anyway, B or C codes don't affect engine and transmission and will not affect the performances or problems with them.

[farns]

I don't know what the codes were, they were just a "string of codes for different modules". I was hoping this scanner would reveal that.

Originally Posted by farns

PCM codes are 1283, 0741, PCM reading speed sensors, values are out of range. Torque Convert is slipping due to hydraulic problem, could be stemming from solonoid, valve body, stator input shaft. Problem is hydraulic, not electrical. Also has string of codes for different modules that were not related to this issue.

The other approach I am wanting to take, and perhaps you guys can help me with this too... I went ahead and picked up a voltmeter as well. In trying to figure out the power fluxuations, the guy at Autozone said to check these several different combinations of points, to see if there was a drop in voltage. That was over a month ago, I don't remember where all he said. And I've never used a voltmeter, so any tips you guys can give me on that would be great. We get the check charging system error all the time, pretty much anytime the car is running, it can happen. Some days it's more than others.

On yet another side note, on Tuesday the tranny was slipping and seeking all over the place. We pulled over, turned it off, turned it back on, and it ran fine. UG! Does that help identify anything?

[serge_saati]

Yes it does. Trans slipping is never caused by electrical or sensors problem. It's always mechanical. If fluid level is good, it's an internal problem with trans. Although you have a code for the speed sensor, it's not linked. VSS problems could cause late shifting or too much downshift, but not slipping.

If you want to check charging system, test voltage on battery or B+ of alternator (it's same thing), it should be a steady 14-14.7V. If it's regulation is ok, you can test voltage at wires that go to PCM in instrument cluster.
Test in 20VDC range of multimeter. If it's autorange, chose just DCV range.

[farns]

Finally got a chance to spend a little time under the hood with the voltmeter. I re-read your post and realized I didn't really understand what you were saying. I followed the positive wire to the alternator. I touched the red probe to that bolt, and the black probe to the negative post on the battery, and read 14.something volts. At that point I realized I really need to learn more about what I'm looking at to know what I am even doing.

I've tried several times to identify the PCM under there, but I really don't know what I'm looking for. I've googled pictures to help me, but no luck. I really need to get a service repair manual, but they're quite expensive and we're just struggling to find two nickles to rub together these days.

The trans still slips, but only once every several drives. But when it does slip, it slips all over. And I guess to be clear, perhaps it's not the trans slipping, perhaps it's just losing power sporatically, I'm not sure I can really tell the difference.

4 different mechanics have looked into this and have come up with nothing, I don't know why I thought I'd be able to do any different...

[mark_gober]

Originally Posted by farns

Finally got a chance to spend a little time under the hood with the voltmeter. I re-read your post and realized I didn't really understand what you were saying. I followed the positive wire to the alternator. I touched the red probe to that bolt, and the black probe to the negative post on the battery, and read 14.something volts. At that point I realized I really need to learn more about what I'm looking at to know what I am even doing.

I've tried several times to identify the PCM under there, but I really don't know what I'm looking for. I've googled pictures to help me, but no luck. I really need to get a service repair manual, but they're quite expensive and we're just struggling to find two nickles to rub together these days.

The trans still slips, but only once every several drives. But when it does slip, it slips all over. And I guess to be clear, perhaps it's not the trans slipping, perhaps it's just losing power sporatically, I'm not sure I can really tell the difference.

4 different mechanics have looked into this and have come up with nothing, I don't know why I thought I'd be able to do any different...

I know its not the answer to all of your questions, but the PCM is pretty easy to find. Just go to the passenger side fender and open the hood. It sits under the black plastic windshield wiper cowl. There is a rather large connector going into it. That connector has probably 100+wires and is large and rectangular. 80-90% of the PCM resides behind the firewall. The only part you can see is the front of it and the connector.

Mark

[serge_saati]

You do it great. 14V, so your alternator is good. Charging problem light is not caused by alternator, but something related to wiring that go to PCM or PCM doesn't measuring voltage correctly or the instrument cluster grounds the bulb all the time, nothing very important.

To distinguish a sleeping transmission and lack of power is easy. Sleeping transmission is the same effect as when you drive a manual car w/o releasing the clutch completely. So engine rpm goes up but car moves very slowly.
In 1st gear, van goes at ~7.5mph for each 1000 rpm. At 3000 rpm it should go at 22.5 mph.
So if van goes less that ~22.5 mph at 3000 rpm in 1st gear, the trans is slipping.

When you lack of power, both rpm and speed increase slowly but at constant speed/rpm ratio.

[farns]

ok, that makes sense. We will watch the tach and see what the RMPs do next time around. Thank you for the advice. I do believe there is a real problem, not just a bulb grounding out, because we've had so many issues that appear to be power related. When the "check charging system" message appears, often half the lights on the dash go out. Never the spedeomteter, never the radio - they never seem to lose power. But sometimes the AC / Heater fans will lose power, and the Error Message Screen will go out. We have seen the headlights flutter, but they've gone all the way out.

One time, I almost backed into a car, because the sonar wasn't working.

Yesterday, the airbag light came on, and stayed lit. The code read I bought told me absolutely nothing about it.

[serge_saati]

For charging system, check ground wires that go to PCM and everywhere else. And the ground alternator bolts and case for good continuity with GND. And good continuity from alternator to power fuse box. There could be rust under the power fuse box terminals. If PCM doesn't get proper ground or B+ input, it will display the warning.

You MS300 can't scan ABS or airbags code. Only high end scanner model can do it.

[farns]

Yep, when the "slipping" occurs, the tach spikes about 2000 rpm. I just pops for a second, then returns to normal. My wife SWEARS it only happens after she's driven a few miles, puts it in park, then starts driving again. Like when she picks me up from work. 4 mile drive, puts it in park while I come out to the van, then as soon as we start driving, it has issues. Never on the drive to get to my shop.

In other news, she wants me to buy the correct scanner so we can work through all these codes like you guys suggested. So the golden question is, what do I buy? Did we come to the conclusion that the $60 one from Harbor Freight would read all the codes my Amazon.com one cannot? Anybody wanna buy an Amazon.com code reader? LOL.

Help me know for sure which one I should buy please, I don't want to make the same mistake twice.

Thanks!

farns

[serge_saati]

Trans slippage is NEVER caused by electric problems (no bad trans solenoids or bad sensors). It's always mechanical or hydraulic. I'm sure your new remanufactured transaxle is bad. Probably worn clutch bands or low hydraulic pressure in 1st gear piston clutch's line. Or bad 1st gear hydraulic accumulator (very rare).
So scanning codes will tell you nothing relevant about this problem. Trans need to be replaced again to fix that.

You had the transaxle warning messages before servicing and replaced the transmission. I think theses trans codes and message have something to do with your charging light. Maybe a bad ground contact somewhere, so PCM receives incorrect voltage signal and throw false codes, but it has nothing to do with trans slippage anyway. It's something else.

If you still want the good scanner, I suggest you the MS509. This one is very good.
You can find it at eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MS509...item19c2e82abb
It normally worth 85$ and more, but there's good deals on eBay.
Little Harbor Freight tool or MS310 are also good to scan trans codes, but don't have graph capability and advanced O2 testing... etc.
However, neither of them (MS509 include) will display body nor chassis codes, but only P and U codes. Only 1000$+ scan tools can scan B and C codes.

[farns]

ok, was fortunate enough today to catch the van throwing the "check charging system" error while I was working on it, and I was able to get my voltmeter on it in time before the error went away. Normally, I get the 14-14.5v range off my battery posts, and off the alternator (testing the place where the battery positive wire connects to the alternator). While I was testing these areas, watching the meter, suddenly it spiked to over 16 volts. I checked the dash, and sure enough the error was one. It cleared a moment later and the volts were back into the 14v range.

All this time I was thinking the voltage was dropping, but I guess it is spiking?

Is there something called a Voltage Regulator in my van? Is that something I should be looking at?

I also checked the connection going from the battery positive to the fusebox. Everything looks nice and clean, no corrosion, no visible issues.

[olopezm]

Hi there,

I'm sorry to hear you are having so many problems. Hopefully you will work it out soon, as you can see there are many great users in this forum.

Your alternator DOES have a voltage regulator and can cause the voltage to go up too much, If this condition exist for a long time you battery will get damaged or won't last long. If the alternator doesn't detects the expected load (like disconnecting you battery while the engine is running) it will work at maximum rate causing the voltage to go up.

Make sure both of the battery cables and terminals (positive and negative) are in good shape and making good contact, the corrosion does not necessarily is visible. The cables can rot from the inside out. So check with your voltmeter for resistance at each cable, the value you should be expecting MUST be the closest as possible to 0 ohms.

Best regards,

Oscar.

[farns]

So the voltage regulator is part of the alternator itself? I'm on my 3rd alternator with this problem, so is it likely that it is the problem?

Can you walk me through how you test the cables as you mentioned? I'm really new with the voltmeter, and need it explained really well.

[olopezm]

Originally Posted by farns

So the voltage regulator is part of the alternator itself? I'm on my 3rd alternator with this problem, so is it likely that it is the problem?

That's correct the regulator is inside the alternator. I can't be sure if that's the problem. You mention this is your third alternator, have you found the specific cause on why the others failed or you just kept replacing them?. If you are not sure on what happened with the others, other than normal wear, then this could be a clear indicator of another problem going on.

Originally Posted by farns

Can you walk me through how you test the cables as you mentioned? I'm really new with the voltmeter, and need it explained really well.

Sure!.

You need to set your voltmeter to measure resistance (Ω "omega symbol"), use the lowest possible scale (0-10,0-100 ohms) and put each probe of the voltmeter (also referred as DMM) at each end of the cable/wire.

In terms of resistance the lowest the value the better; and a bigger value can range from bad connections to a broken cable (called open circuit condition or infinite resistance). You can increase the scale on the DMM one at a time, if you've reached the highest scale and your DMM still shows '1' that's an indicator of an open circuit.

Here's a small diagram:

Red probe -> wire <- black probe
l------------DMM----------l

Best regards,

Oscar.